Return-Path: Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 10:44:26 -0400 Errors-To: gregt@Visix.COM Reply-To: tool-list@Visix.COM Originator: tool-list@visix.com Sender: tool-list@Visix.COM Precedence: bulk From: tool-list@Visix.COM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: TOOL-LIST digest 369 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tool discussion TOOL-LIST Digest 369 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re:religion by Scott J Stoddard 2) Re:religion by Tim 3) religion by Michael Shurpik 4) Finally! Something I can write about. by "Guth Stacey" 5) Re: Finally! Something I can write about. by kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your friend Kabir) 6) Re: two questions by mikes@pacifier.com (Michael Stroup) 7) Re: by mikes@pacifier.com (Michael Stroup) 8) fading out by kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) 9) Re: two questions by kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) 10) Re: fading out by Michael Shurpik 11) Re: fading out by kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) 12) new faq coming.... by kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) 13) by kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic No. 1 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 11:56:23 MST From: Scott J Stoddard To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re:religion Message-ID: <9507141156.aa23126@idi.insight.com> > feel that a large part of it has to do with fear and uncertainty. I > think a lot of people however long ago didn't like or believe any ideas > of evolution so they tried to come up with other answers as to our > (humans) existence. I know that religions have been around a lot longer > people. So the belief that we were all created this way and have always > been this way relieved peoples minds. Which leads to who/what created > everything? A Supreme Being of some sort, a God. Now everyone must pray > to this God. I think that the part about fear comes from not knowing > about the "other side" of death. People didn't want to just live, put up > with all of the bullshit that they had to for their whole lives and then > just die and have that be the end of it. People wanted more and wanted to > know that there was more so that death wouldn't be so scary. > Well, that is some of how I feel about why there is religion but that > doesn't necessarily mean that it may be true for all of the various > religions around the world. > > Scott Shit man.. even if you do not belive in God or a god you hafta' know that someone put you here... If you think one day some molecles one day floated along and bumped into another molecule and made you, you better think again.. Somehow this is some freak of nature, right!? All the planets that have been around a lot longer than the earth in all the trillions of years have amazingly have not popped a person or two out... And if you do believe when you die that is the end then there is no purpose to live and suffer to be better and might as well die now...as always this of course is IMHO... --Scott ------------------------------ Topic No. 2 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 13:28:48 PDT From: Tim To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re:religion Message-ID: Scott Wrote: -shit man.. even if you do not belive in God or a god you hafta' know that someone put you here... If you think one day some molecles one day floated along and bumped into another molecule and made you, you better think again.. Somehow this is some freak of nature, right!? All the planets that have been around a lot longer than the earth in all the trillions of years have amazingly have not popped a person or two out... And if you do believe when you die that is the end then there is no purpose to live and suffer to be better and might as well die now...as always this of course is IMHO... --Scott ----------End of Original Message---------- _____ _- -_ _- LEADS -_ -_ INC _- ___ --___-- | o IXI o _____ o [ 0 0 ] ^ WWW U oOOO OOOo ----------------------------------------- This mail was sent from... Company: LEADS, Inc. Name: Tim E-mail: leads@interramp.com ----------------------------------------- I would have to say first that the other planets do not have the substance to hold or support ANY life form. When you die your dead! Do you believe in UFO's? Perhaps if the other planets could support life the UFO's wouldn't have so far to travel to get here and more people would believe in them. Of course, this is my own opinion and I have no idea what this has to do with TOOL!!!!?????? - Tim ------------------------------ Topic No. 3 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 16:06:04 -0400 From: Michael Shurpik To: tool-list@porsche.visix.com Subject: religion Message-ID: <199507142006.QAA16193@maastricht.lcs.mit.edu> > you hafta' know that someone put you here i don't think you do. to me, the case where we pop out of nowhere is a lot more probable than the case where God pops out of nowhere AND makes us. what takes less effort...to make a universe or to make a god to make a universe? but yes, perhaps the religion thread is drifing too far from tool. ------------------------------ Topic No. 4 Date: 14 Jul 1995 16:48:11 -0400 From: "Guth Stacey" To: "The whole damn Tool list" Subject: Finally! Something I can write about. Message-ID: I am one of those famous lurkers who has yet to post anything. I love = tool's music, but I don't study the album art or the personal interviews = and other trivia, for me it is just the music. It speaks to me. Anyway, = that is why I had to actually check the lyric sheets in order to discover = the name of my favorite T00l song. I found, with some amusement, that it = is Opiate. No wonder they named the EP for it. That song speaks volumes. ------------------------------ Topic No. 5 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 18:32:00 -0400 (EDT) From: kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your friend Kabir) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Finally! Something I can write about. Message-ID: <199507142232.SAA26763@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> / I am one of those famous lurkers who has yet to post anything. I love = / tool's music, but I don't study the album art or the personal interviews = / and other trivia, for me it is just the music. It speaks to me. Anyway, = / that is why I had to actually check the lyric sheets in order to discover = / the name of my favorite T00l song. I found, with some amusement, that it = / is Opiate. No wonder they named the EP for it. That song speaks volumes. um so what you're saying is, you didn't know the name of track 6 on _opiate_ until you checked the lyrics? .. isn't it written on the back?!??!?!?!?! ___kabir akhtar______________________________________________________________ | | Vice President, Kabir Fan Club | brutalize me | Secretary, Intuitons Experimental Theater | i will heal. | | ............ | http://pobox.com/~kabir/ | .....--KMFDM | is: "Lick Me / Click Me" _|______________|____________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Topic No. 6 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 19:35 PDT From: mikes@pacifier.com (Michael Stroup) To: tool-list@porsche.visix.com, Subject: Re: two questions Message-ID: At 07:22 PM 7/10/95 EDT, Your pal Kabir wrote: i mean, the >file don't say nothing about "got you in a stranglehold baby", but yeah. I was under the impression it was "Get you stronger on me. Get it til you get it RIGHT!!!!" -Joe ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Stroup "Your dream of power is a sacrifice Vancouver, WA Do you really want to pay that price 10cc WWW Homepage Just think about it and you'll change the pace http://www.pacifier.com/~mikes Look in the mirror and tell me who do you face /10cc/10cc.html ...who is that?" Eric Stewart/10cc/Mirror,Mirror ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Topic No. 7 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 19:36 PDT From: mikes@pacifier.com (Michael Stroup) To: tool-list@visix.com, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Message-ID: At 12:38 PM 7/12/95 -0400, David Tenenbaum wrote: >For example "Whenever you give yourself over to any group". What does "give >yourself over" mean exactly. Have we given ourselves over to the tool-list >and thereby lost some portion of our personal freedom? Yes. >As to the rest, I agree with the answers implied in `Opiate'. People >allow themsleves to be convinced that they are lost, that they need >someone to tell them how to live. People are told: "You are empty and >meaningless. Belief will fill you and give you meaning" and they buy >it. And they don't even bother to see if there are strings attached or >ulterior motives. In its worst incarnation, religion can be voluntary >mind control. Yes. >At its best, religion can provide people with a moral system, and sometimes >its a good one. In my thoughts I believe that people should find/create/produce their own morals. If you give someone something to believe in without them experiencing the system firsthand it loses potency in their lives. Of course we'd all like to believe that our rules in society should be the governing force in all our morals, but it doesn't work that way. I'm glad it doesn't. I like the idea of religion as >a tool (oops) which people can use to get at more fundamental ideas of >how to be a decent person (more fundamental because I think that one can >arrive at the goal without organized, dogmatic religion). How to be a 'decent' person? What your version of decency or correctness is not what everyone else believes. The choice to live your life with 'decency' as described by society is a precious one, and in a lot of cases comes down to living your life as yourself. Certain values I agree with personally, but usually only values that wouldn't allow one person to impose on someone else's freedoms. -JOE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Stroup "Your dream of power is a sacrifice Vancouver, WA Do you really want to pay that price 10cc WWW Homepage Just think about it and you'll change the pace http://www.pacifier.com/~mikes Look in the mirror and tell me who do you face /10cc/10cc.html ...who is that?" Eric Stewart/10cc/Mirror,Mirror ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Topic No. 8 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 01:12:53 -0400 From: kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) To: tool-list@porsche.visix.com (The List) Subject: fading out Message-ID: ok, who said that none of their songs faded out... have you listened to 'opiate' recently??? and i even agreed and seconded the motion. sigh. i just stole _opiate_ back from my sister, wow, i missed it not at all, but it's just great to hear again ... odd that i didn't miss it. -- yourpalkabir -------------------------- keep it away from the fire unless you want it to burn -- KMFDM / "ultra" ------------------------------ Topic No. 9 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 01:12:49 -0400 From: kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: two questions Message-ID: > i mean, the >>file don't say nothing about "got you in a stranglehold baby", but yeah. > >I was under the impression it was "Get you stronger on me. Get it til you >get it RIGHT!!!!" > > -Joe >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Michael Stroup "Your dream of power is a sacrifice joe? michael? WHAT!??!?!?!? listen to the 'sober' bootleg, it's clearly got you in a stranglehold baby _________kabir akhtar_________________________________________________________ | | Vice President, Kabir Fan Club | accidents won't happen if | Secretary, Intuitons Experimental Theater | you never leave your home | | ......................... | http://pobox.com/~kabir/ | ..................--prick | is: "Lick Me / Click Me" _|___________________________|______________________________________________ __ ------------------------------ Topic No. 10 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 02:09:36 -0400 From: Michael Shurpik To: tool-list@visix.com Cc: kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) Subject: Re: fading out Message-ID: <199507150609.CAA20611@utrecht.lcs.mit.edu> I was the one who made the fade-out comment...I don't have opiate around, otherwise I'd check it out. How does it end? I know it blends into the satan thing... The point I was trying to make is that a lot of bands come up with a cool chorus, and the whole song is about how to play that chorus as many times as possible. Tool, however, writes songs that are unified works with a clear-cut purpose from the first secondto the last. This is not to say that the songs sound the same all the way though - just the opposite. But to me it seems like every note was meticulously thought out, which is great. It also seems that Tool believes that how you begin and end a song are just as important as what you put in it. anyway, opiate is one song out of fifteen or so...any others? Mike ds ------------------------------ Topic No. 11 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 02:14:13 -0400 From: kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: fading out Message-ID: >I was the one who made the fade-out comment...I don't have opiate >around, otherwise I'd check it out. How does it end? I know it blends >into the satan thing... just kinda bubbles away :) but it's still a good point, it's the only song to do that! -- yourpalkabir -------------------------- keep it away from the fire unless you want it to burn -- KMFDM / "ultra" ------------------------------ Topic No. 12 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 02:36:47 -0400 From: kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) To: tool-list@porsche.visix.com (The List) Subject: new faq coming.... Message-ID: it's in progress. Reminder that you can find the latest faq and discography and more at The Tool Page, located at http://pobox.com/~kabir/tool (yep, was formerly the Tool Info Page - it's changing.) _________kabir akhtar_________________________________________________________ | | Vice President, Kabir Fan Club | accidents won't happen if | Secretary, Intuitons Experimental Theater | you never leave your home | | ......................... | http://pobox.com/~kabir/ | ..................--prick | is: "Lick Me / Click Me" _|___________________________|______________________________________________ __ ------------------------------ Topic No. 13 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 02:52:24 -0400 From: kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your pal Kabir) To: tool-list@porsche.visix.com (The List) Message-ID: I'm outta here ... be back sunday afternoon / evening y'all take care and such... -- yourpalkabir -------------------------- keep it away from the fire unless you want it to burn -- KMFDM / "ultra" ------------------------------ End of TOOL-LIST Digest 369 ***************************