Return-Path: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:23:54 -0400 Errors-To: gregt@Visix.COM Reply-To: tool-list@Visix.COM Originator: tool-list@visix.com Sender: tool-list@Visix.COM Precedence: bulk From: tool-list@Visix.COM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: TOOL-LIST digest 402 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tool discussion TOOL-LIST Digest 402 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: i beg to differ... by aaron@emedia.net (Aaron Haspel) 2) Re: Dogstar review by Matt Toomey 3) re: where YOU from by MCarlo@genencor.com 4) Re: i beg to differ... by Michael Shurpik 5) Re: Daydreams & Cygnus by Remo Williams 6) Re: i beg to differ... by aaron@emedia.net (Aaron Haspel) 7) Re: P E Y O T E ! ! ! ! ! by 9405653m@lux.levels.unisa.edu.au (9405653m) 8) by "Lynn E. Cross" 9) Peyote!! by nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) 10) Re: where YOU are by nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) 11) First time/they just don' by nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) 12) Re: where YOU are by nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) 13) Re: where YOU are by nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) 14) Re: radio play by RollinsMan@aol.com 15) re: radio play by UXDX70B@prodigy.com (MR CHAD CHRISTENSEN-WOODS) 16) Re: Peyote!! by jjbl 17) re: chad=larry by UXDX70B@prodigy.com (MR CHAD CHRISTENSEN-WOODS) 18) a few things (if I can remember them) (SORRY ABOUT THE LENGTH) by ThirdAge1@aol.com 19) Comments made on the last list. by matts@mpx.com.au (Matt Steadman) 20) Re: i beg to differ... by matts@mpx.com.au (Matt Steadman) 21) RE: First time/they just don' by Tim 22) Re: Sam Goody??? by Tim 23) this travesty of justice by Toolophile@aol.com 24) Re: Daydreams & Cygnus by Steve Goyette 25) Newcomer by "Khan, Farzana" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic No. 1 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 18:25:51 -0400 From: aaron@emedia.net (Aaron Haspel) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: i beg to differ... Message-ID: I didn't think my message was all that difficult. Michael seems to have understood me perfectly, despite his disclaimer. But for Matt's benefit I will gloss it: 1. "De gustibus non disputandum est"--a famous quote from Horace. It means: "There's no disputing taste." That's what I take issue with: there *is* disputing taste, and people spend a good deal of their time doing it, especially on mailing lists. So you shouldn't dispute on the one hand and say you can't dispute on the other. 2. Helmholtz--great German scientist from the 19th century who spent a lot of time researching sound in general and music in particular. Developed an elaborate theory of the mathematics of music which is probably still as good as any. 3. The Pythagoreans--early Greek philosophers who first recognized that harmonious sounds have simple whole number ratios. 4. The Osmonds--Mormon band from the 1970s who sounded like a softer version of Three Dog Night, if that can be imagined. I trust this clears matters up. Aaron Haspel phone: 212-633-0707 LawServ, Inc. fax : 212-633-1055 10 West 19th Street email: aaron@emedia.net NYC 10011 Web : http://www.emedia.net/lawserv/ ------------------------------ Topic No. 2 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 15:19:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Toomey To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Dogstar review Message-ID: Well, I drove 2.5 hours to see Dogstar last night (but I got the tickets for free). And they weren't bad, but I would not go see them again, even if they played in my backyard. For those of you who don't know this, Keanu Reeves plays bass for them. Someone on this list said they had sort of a Dinosaur Jr. sound, and they do, but there were only two or three songs that I could say I "liked." I think they came close to selling out this small venue, but most of the people there were moms with their 14 year old daughters. Everytime Keanu moved or made any motion, the crowd went crazy. The only reason why they sell any tickets is probably because he's in the band. For the encore, they played Neil Young's "Keep on Rockin in the Free world." The opening act was really cool though. They were called Katie's Dimples. I would have rather have seen them play all night instead of Dogstar. Anyway, I suppose I get what I pay for, and since it was free, I didn't get much. -Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Matthew Ian Toomey ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Man was born to love- ^ Though often he has sought ^ Like Icarus, to fly too high. ^ And far too lonely than he ought ^ To kiss the sun of east and west ^ And hold the world at his behest- ^ To hold the terrible power ^ To whom only gods are blessed- ^ But me, I am just a MAN." ^ ^ -M. Patton ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Topic No. 3 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 15:38:47 -0700 From: MCarlo@genencor.com To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: re: where YOU from Message-ID: <03121950@ccsmtp.genencor.com> i'm from the east bay (San Francisco Bay) and work just south of SF where i read this mail. i know just one person who likes TooL but he doesn't think they're the best flavor-of-the-month to come out in years like i do. mike carlo i have no sig file ------------------------------ Topic No. 4 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 18:55:51 -0400 From: Michael Shurpik To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: i beg to differ... Message-ID: <199508152255.SAA10931@utrecht.lcs.mit.edu> > It means: "There's no disputing taste." That's what I take issue with: there > *is* disputing taste, and people spend a good deal of their time doing it, Yes. There is disputing taste. As my senior year English teacher (a phd, and an awesome guy) said: "What nutcase told you that all opinions are equal? That's crap! Your opinion as an intelligent, educated person is infinitely more valuable than some schmecklehead's who hasn't given the subject one thought." he's very well spoken...he said it slightly more elegantly than that, but that's pretty close to what came out of his mouth. It's like, oh yeah, the opinions of idiots don't count after all. Sure, they're entitled to them, but...so what. Mike ------------------------------ Topic No. 5 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 18:13:16 EDT From: Remo Williams To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Daydreams & Cygnus Message-ID: I feel I should respond. I feel it's necessary for my continued presence to contain the sort of awe reserved for psychotics and vicious dogs. You are not the true Rollins. The true Rollins will contact me when he gets into town, and we'll see if he's still interested in fighting a fan that might actually hospitalize him. I doubt it; he and I have grown up in the past two years. Anyway, I don't hit very many people anymore. No one seems worth it. Especially AOL users. Besides that... real men drink Stoli. -Remo ------------------------------ Topic No. 6 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:29:30 -0400 From: aaron@emedia.net (Aaron Haspel) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: i beg to differ... Message-ID: >As my senior year English teacher (a phd, and an awesome guy) said: > >"What nutcase told you that all opinions are equal? That's crap! Your opinion >as an intelligent, educated person is infinitely more valuable than some >schmecklehead's who hasn't given the subject one thought." > Good for your English teacher, and good for you for attending to him. Far better to have to think about what exactly makes Tool superior to other bands and defend that opinion, than to harbor it secretly and resort to "it's just a matter of taste anyway" when someone calls you on it. BTW, I seem to get your messages twice. Everyone else is OK, so it's definitely you, not the listserver. Aaron Haspel phone: 212-633-0707 LawServ, Inc. fax : 212-633-1055 10 West 19th Street email: aaron@emedia.net NYC 10011 Web : http://www.emedia.net/lawserv/ ------------------------------ Topic No. 7 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 08:56:15 +0930 (GMT+0930) From: 9405653m@lux.levels.unisa.edu.au (9405653m) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: P E Y O T E ! ! ! ! ! Message-ID: <9508152326.AA28284@lux.levels.unisa.edu.au> Fellow Tools, Eh! from me, I havent posted for a while but today I come with grand news. Someone took it upon then selves to program two TOOL songs into the background music while we were waiting for Faith No More to come one last night.This is a good sign, as usually whoever selects the waiting music plays SAFE stuff for the Triple M kiddies, like Nirvana or pop songs with a real scary F-Word in them. Anyways they played The Swamp Song and Flood, and the small community of TOOLs that were present went off. Its good to know that someone out there has the guts and will to program the band they love. As for someone asking yesterday about Peyote (the FNM support band) they are not bad, except the guitarist knows only two chords. The drumming at times was very TOOLish, and the singer is damn fine too. Faith No More on the other hand went OFF. Not in any small way either. The entire show lasted at least two hours including two encores. I'd love to know where Mr Patton buys his microphones - they're fkn tough. Bye now. The Frizzle Fry -Paul ------------------------------ Topic No. 8 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 20:12:55 EDT From: "Lynn E. Cross" To: tool-list@visix.com Message-ID: <199508160012.UAA05408@pen2.pen.k12.va.us> Boy have I got a neat story! Last night some friends and I ate some mushrooms and settled down for an evening of fun. It was really neat for quite some time. About 2:00 a friend of mine was sitting down singing along to the Morrissey song in the background when suddenly he fell backwords, cracking his head on the concrete. When my other friend tried to make sure he was not choking on his tounge, my unconcious friend bit down, hard. I had to pry his jaws loose. Anyway he came to and got 5 stiches in his head. It gets better! On the way home we listened to Opiate. About halfway there I decided I couldn't handle it, due to stress, etc. As soon as Toad came on my rear tire went flat, on a deserted country road, at 3 in the morning. Obviously we're all ok now, but what a fucking night. Vernon ------------------------------ Topic No. 9 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 16:33:00 -0400 From: nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Peyote!! Message-ID: <8AF33E1.01F40476C0.uuout@compudata.com> AW> has anyone else heard of Australian band Peyote. i saw them AW> last night when they supported Faith No More at Festival AW> Hall in Melbourne. very toolish and very good. AW> CHECK 'EM OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this sounds interesting. where else is the faith no more tour headed? if they're going to be in the philadelphia/new york area, i'd love to see them. nivek.ogre@compudata.com .. * TQwk/Win v1.10 * #Un-Registered. Evaluation Day #1 ------------------------------ Topic No. 10 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 16:42:00 -0400 From: nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: where YOU are Message-ID: <8AF33EA.01F40476C2.uuout@compudata.com> JD> Sound good to me. JD> ps When is rage putting out a new album? JD> - J Wright "honesty is no excuse" rage's album was origional supposed to be out this march, but it got pushed back to july 1st, and now is pushed back to 'first week of august'. its gonna be a lot different than the other cd though... its a two cd set, and its supposed to be 'more varied' as the sam goody guy put it. nivek.ogre@compudata.com .. * TQwk/Win v1.10 * #Un-Registered. Evaluation Day #1 ------------------------------ Topic No. 11 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 16:57:00 -0400 From: nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: First time/they just don' Message-ID: <8AF33F9.01F40476C3.uuout@compudata.com> The first time i heard tool, i was drunk off my ass at my friend mike's older brother jim's graduation party. He goes to college up north a bit, where the music scene is really good, and he brought back 'opiate' with him. he skipped to jerkoff, and it was great, i loved it. it just fit perfectly with what i was feeling. tool is very emotional music, and it just stirs a bit of you. i like it. nivek.ogre@compudata.com .. * TQwk/Win v1.10 * #Un-Registered. Evaluation Day #1 ------------------------------ Topic No. 12 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 17:01:00 -0400 From: nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: where YOU are Message-ID: <8AF33FD.01F40476C4.uuout@compudata.com> TN> 1: Well, it can 't get much worse than Athens, believe me. TN> 2: They have never played here, so there is no way of TN> measuring how big they are. Anyway, all my friends are TN> really into Tool, and that's not bad at all if you keep in TN> mind that all radiostations here, play shitty stuff and TN> that people in Athens tend to follow like mindless sheep TN> any corporate dick ripoff band and when they *do* like TN> something worth listening to, they do it for all the wrong TN> reasons (you know, image and stuff.) I suppose that if they TN> ever play here (not too likely, it seems, but you can never TN> know), they will probably fill a 1500-2000 seats club. TN> BTW, i haven't heard one single Tool track on the TN> radio...I was wondering, do they get any radio airplay in TN> the States, or elsewhere? Later... T a z well, in my neck of the states, the philadelphia area, the only way you'll hear tool is on college radio. the rest off the stations are mostly just corparate top 40 stations. nivek.ogre@compudata.com .. * TQwk/Win v1.10 * #Un-Registered. Evaluation Day #1 ------------------------------ Topic No. 13 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 16:37:00 -0400 From: nivek.ogre@compudata.com (NIVEK OGRE) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: where YOU are Message-ID: <8AF33E5.01F40476C1.uuout@compudata.com> SD> ------------------------------------------- i hear ya, SD> bro...... fuck 'em......fuck the little shallow fucks!!! SD> let 'em go listen to their little play the latest SD> stp/collective soul song cheesie radio stations.... (it's SD> 8:00 am i'm at work and i love life....) SD> anyway, good additude!!! SD> -scot yeah, i generally tend to ingore the mall-rat type people. they used to piss me off a lot, but then i stopped caring. i mean, who am i to tell them what to like? i will tell them that thuer music is insincere, talentless, and at best has a catchy beat. nivek.ogre@compudata.com .. * TQwk/Win v1.10 * #Un-Registered. Evaluation Day #1 ------------------------------ Topic No. 14 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 21:40:28 -0400 From: RollinsMan@aol.com To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: radio play Message-ID: <950815214022_55403551@aol.com> It always amazed me that shit bands like Rollins and Rage got more airplay, but I guess it was for the better...might as well keep Tool for the people that can understand them. Mike ps Rollins and Rage is pretty cool to listen to, but come on, you have to admit that they're fairly talentless. - - - - - - - - - I would agree that each member of TOOL has immense talent. BUT! I listen to, and happen to love, Rollins Band and Rage. I listen to them for different reasons, they help me to vent my frustrations toward this shit-hole, shit-faced place. Yes, I speak of everyone and everything. Thank you and good night. CMcG ------------------------------ Topic No. 15 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:13:26 EDT From: UXDX70B@prodigy.com (MR CHAD CHRISTENSEN-WOODS) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: re: radio play Message-ID: <013.09932675.UXDX70B@prodigy.com> no radio play here in San Diego! well, if you count 3:30 in the morning once every other week by the only cool dj's in town (Vinnie and Fitz split the graveyard shift). Sober was played on an LA station for a while, but that peetered out. now all you hear is Dokken, Hootie, Collective Soul, and Pearl Sham. "It's a conspiracy I tell you. We must RISE UP, REVOLT and stab them with our plastic sporks!!!" Sean D. Oh well, at least I have a portable cd player I can plug into my truck's tape deck :) Chad ------------------------------ Topic No. 16 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:14:39 -0400 (EDT) From: jjbl To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Peyote!! Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, NIVEK OGRE wrote: > > this sounds interesting. where else is the faith no more tour > headed? if they're going to be in the philadelphia/new york area, > i'd love to see them. Send mail to majordomo@tower.stc.housing.washington.edu with a blank subject line, and "subscribe cv (your address)", no signature. That'll put you on the FNM mailing list, where you can get just about any question you have answered. FNM members supposedly read the list on and off, but aren't active particiapnts. But they are defnitely well aware of it, since they mentioned it on TV, and at a couple of concerts.. ----- You have just been verbally molested by: bozak@bridge.net Was it good for you? ----- ------------------------------ Topic No. 17 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 02:43:36 EDT From: UXDX70B@prodigy.com (MR CHAD CHRISTENSEN-WOODS) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: re: chad=larry Message-ID: <013.09944367.UXDX70B@prodigy.com> not larry, but sometimes "lurch" and ya he snowboards (he's pretty good too)...he lived in northern hall or something like that. Chad ------------------------------ Topic No. 18 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 03:12:44 -0400 From: ThirdAge1@aol.com To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: a few things (if I can remember them) (SORRY ABOUT THE LENGTH) Message-ID: <950816031242_55598911@aol.com> First of all. I, like a lot of people, heard Sober first and was totally impressed. I bought the c.d. and only listened to Sober. I didn't like the rest of it (at first) Then later I found two other songs that I liked as much as Sober: Crawl Away and Swamp Song.(This was probably after a month) Then about 4 months later I fell in love with Intolerance and Prison Sex, and soon after the rest of the album has become what it is today: my alltime favorite overall album (followed closely by Jane's Addiction's NOTHING'S SHOCKING) One thing that really attracts me to the band is the way the songs really make Return-Path: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:23:54 -0400 Errors-To: gregt@Visix.COM Reply-To: tool-list@Visix.COM Originator: tool-list@visix.com Sender: tool-list@Visix.COM Precedence: bulk From: tool-list@Visix.COM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: TOOL-LIST digest 402 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tool discussion you feel something, whether hate, pain, happiness,confusion, isolation, or whatever, they truley make you participate in them. For example, I have never been molested or raped or sexually abused or anything, but whenever I hear Prison Sex, esp. the lines "I'm breathing so I guess I'm still alive" and "I have found some kind of temporary sanity in this shit blood and come on my hands", I really feel like I've gone through this ordeal. I guess I'm either really emotional and attach to songs to easily or just plain weird, but there is something in the desperation in the way Maynard sings them (esp. live- no I've never seen them live, just bootlegs) that makes me want to cry. Actually my eyes did water up a couple times, but there were other emotional things on my mind at the time so it was a combined effort. Other songs have lines that really hit home for me: "I've been far too sympathetic." , "Hatred keeps me alive", "How could I let this happen?" "Knock me down, I'll just come back running", "This is my love for you", and so on. I know that the lines are relativly generic (could mean something to everyone) but just the way they are sung, and things that have happened while listening really make an emotional impact on me. I think thats what makes a great band- WHEN THE LISTENERS CAN RELATE SO WELL OR THE SONGS AND LYRICS ARE SO POWERFULL AND EMOTIONAL THAT THEY CAN CAUSE TEARS.I dont mean like the tears you see on old clips of teenyboppers that are watching the Beatles either, I mean gut wrenching, emotionally cleansing tears. Few bands have this effect on me :Jane's Addiction (P4P a little bit), Faith No More, Chilmark, Third Age, and some NIN. Anyway, let me move on. To everyone asking about my JOKE post to Kevin about getting copies of the boots... I copied them for him and will copy them for whoever sends me tapes and return postage. Email me at ETNL43B@PRODIGY.COM and we'll work something out. I have Tales From The Darkside, Sober '93, and a show from Toronto(no title) from Lolla '93. If you reply to me through AOL and not PRODIGY, I will probably just ignore it, so reply to Prodigy DAMN IT! ;) TOOLPHILE and the other person I contacted about trading(Sorry I forgot your name, I think it was a bunch of numbers) I am still interested so email me at ETNL43B@prodigy.com and we can exchange addresses and whatnot.BTW, the Toronto tape is Audio BUT ANYONE OUT THERE!!! CONTACT ME IF YOU'LL COPY ANY LIVE TOOL VIDEO'S FOR ME PLEEEEEEAAAASEEE!!!! To the person who saw Rage: Did you say P.E. opened up? I think that is really cool. I didn't even know they were still together (Isn't Flava Flav in jail?) How were they? Do you even like them? I don't like too much rap,but they are one of my favorite bands, of either; rock or rap. I think It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back is unbelievable. Does anyone have any live P.E. tapes to copy for me?:) I think most rap today is really bad. I dont mind all the swearing and killing in it, but I just think it all sounds very much alike and really generic. Anyone else notice now that just about all west coast rap (even some east coast too) have that stupid little siren-like thing in it? Ever since Dre's GThang it seems (although the earliest I have heard the "siren" is on the previously mentioned P.E. album -1988) As for where I am- Falmouth, MA on Cape Cod. It's O.K. here. Some good local shows at a club just over the bridge. It's really a bad burnt out old rock club but once in a while has good local hardcore bands. Actually, it's so bad, Slaughter played there last winter. It probably cant hold more than 100 people. IT's called the Approach -any other people from MA been there? Usually I have to go to R.I. or Boston for the good shows. I saw Quicksand in R.I. 3 weeks ago, I'm going to see them again with Orange 9MM, Sick Of It All, Fluf, L7, Seaweed and others on Saturday in Northampton at something called the Warped Tour. Anyone else seen this? Last Saturday I saw Shudder To Think (very good- even though they were a buzz clip- been listening long before MTV knew about them though) and Foo Fighters (Should not have headlined while Shudder opened- should have been the other way around) in R.I. TO KEVIN (ASPAFFOR): Shiver is breaking up.They have to go to college, but the singer, drummer and guitarist are supposed to get an apartment together across the street from the Rat (a club) in Boston so we'll see what happens. I have a live video of a show they played last spring and they also sort of have a new tape out. They recorded it but couldn't afford to do anything with it, but they let me and some friends copy off of the DAT tape so its just like a new tape. 12 Songs. Let me know if you want them. I can copy them for you(or anyone else interested) Anyone else in MA heard of them? I went to high school with two of them last year( they graduated, I still have one more year) Oh fuck, sorry bout the length I just realized how long it is. Anyway, I hope you people aren't too mad too reply. Hopefully something good can come of it. Andy "I'll try and make the most, yet still it marches on. I'll make the most of everyday, it will all be gone. Give me your life, I need to feel alive. Just one touch and you'll make me feel alive." - THIRD AGE- ------------------------------ Topic No. 19 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 18:06 EST From: matts@mpx.com.au (Matt Steadman) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Comments made on the last list. Message-ID: Hi all... Good to see the huge lists of late! Edward van de Weerthof wrote: >...and hope to see them soon again. So do I, Edward, so do I!!! Aaron Webb wrote: >has anyone else heard of Australian band Peyote. i saw them last night >when they supported Faith No More at Festival Hall in Melbourne. very >toolish and very good. Yeah... I saw them at Alternative Nation, and was slightly impressed (could be cause it was pissing down with rain, and they were the only band playing, on stage 3). I have to admit that I don't mind them, but my brother doesn't like them. Toolish? Ya think? I'm not too sure about that... scot wrote: >i hear ya, bro...... >fuck 'em......fuck the little shallow fucks!!! Yeah! I agree. I hate scenesters! Peter Booras wrote: >Will someone please make a copy of this for me, I will do for you as I did >for him, send you a tape in an overnight express package with a return >overnight box to send it back to me in. Airbourne Express will even pick it >up from you. I will even enclose $10 for your trouble. Wish I had some Tool boots. :( I do have the one that came with Undertow, though, so if anyone wants a copy just mail me at . BTW, a couple of lists ago, some guy mentioned Mozart as being a musician. For fear of injecting a bit of classical music into the list, Mozart wasn't a musician, and virtually never touched an instrument... he was a composer. Ain't I a smartarse bastard! Hey, my brother's coming on this list soon - you have been warned! ------- Professor Nutbutter -------- "Hey kids, ya like that rock & roll?" -- msteadmn@landsend.apana.org.au -- -------- matts@mpx.com.au ---------- ------------------------------ Topic No. 20 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 18:06 EST From: matts@mpx.com.au (Matt Steadman) To: tool-list@visix.com Cc: aaron@emedia.net Subject: Re: i beg to differ... Message-ID: I thought that this deserved it's own reply - if you're not into philosphy with regards to music, then skip this post!! Aaron Haspel wrote: >No Tool fan really believes that the band isn't better, *objectively* better, >than, say, the Osmonds. How can you have an objective belief? As soon as you beleive it, it becomes very much subjective. I honestly believe that Tool are better than the Osmonds - their music is harmonically more interesting, and what it lacks melodically speaking it more than makes up for in it's intense polyrhythms. Adam Jones is striving to think of the guitar in a different way than most bands (including the Osmonds), and this is where the interesting harmony comes from. It's amazing to think that a 4 piece band with a singer can at times be described as polyphonic... unheard of in a homophonically dominated industry. But of course, because *I* believe this, it is subjective to ME. I'm incapable of objectivity on this subject (and indeed any subject) that I hold an opinion on. As is everybody. >Of course many Tool fans would be hard-pressed to say exactly *why* that is so, >and so they retreat into radical subjectivism. Most Tool subjectivism isn't radical, far from it. It's just the plain old "I like Tool." This is, of course, if the Osmonds *are* actually better than Tool, which I hope to have proved the opposite. >We understand very little about the way music works on the emotions NO! Modern (educated) musicians and composers understand lots of the emotional content of music. Take the impressionist period, for example (1900-1950ish). The composers of that time concentrated SOLELY on timbre, hence emotions. Listen to some classical stuff, and learn from it. (see, you don't have to like it to learn from it!!) >If music were entirely subjective, what would be the point of discussing it? Exactly what point are you trying to make with this post? BTW, this ain't a dig at you, I'm just interested in your opinions... such debate on this list can only be good!! Bye now... ------- Professor Nutbutter -------- "Hey kids, ya like that rock & roll?" -- msteadmn@landsend.apana.org.au -- -------- matts@mpx.com.au ---------- ------------------------------ Topic No. 21 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 09:17:27 PDT From: Tim To: tool-list@Visix.COM Subject: RE: First time/they just don' Message-ID: ood, and he brought back 'opiate' with him. he skipped to jerkoff, and it was great, i loved it. it just fit perfectly with what i was feeling. tool is very emotional music, and it just stirs a bit of you. i like it. nivek.ogre@compudata.com * TQwk/Win v1.10 * #Un-Registered. Evaluation Day #1 ----------End of Original Message---------- _____ _- -_ _- LEADS -_ -_ INC _- ___ --___-- | o IXI o _____ o [ 0 0 ] ^ WWW U oOOO OOOo ----------------------------------------- This mail was sent from... Company: LEADS, Inc. Name: Tim E-mail: leads@interramp.com ----------------------------------------- I must admit, Jerkoff is definately my favorite Tool song. My band used to play that and Prison Sex. I played guitar. The crowd went wild. - Tim ------------------------------ Topic No. 22 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 09:19:34 PDT From: Tim To: tool-list@Visix.COM Subject: Re: Sam Goody??? Message-ID: ts a two cd set, and its supposed to be 'more varied' as the sam goody guy put it. nivek.ogre@compudata.com * TQwk/Win v1.10 * #Un-Registered. Evaluation Day #1 ----------End of Original Message---------- _____ _- -_ _- LEADS -_ -_ INC _- ___ --___-- | o IXI o _____ o [ 0 0 ] ^ WWW U oOOO OOOo ----------------------------------------- This mail was sent from... Company: LEADS, Inc. Name: Tim E-mail: leads@interramp.com ----------------------------------------- I have one thing to say.... SAM GOODY????? From what I've seen those people don't know there ass from a hole in the ground. You'd probably get more information from people working at WalMart!!!!! hahaha... - Tim ------------------------------ Topic No. 23 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 10:08:21 -0400 From: Toolophile@aol.com To: tool-list@porsche.visix.com Subject: this travesty of justice Message-ID: <950816100726_76040071@aol.com> hey, starting with nothing now: >i am going to drive for twelvve hours to see a filter concert >in the shittiest part of denver colorado. i thought all of denver was shitty. :) 12 hours for a concert... hmm.... and why do your posts always end with nevermind? justin: >Where are the rest of you all from? colorado. thankfully far away from denver. soon to be back in iowa. back to nothing: >there ain.t nothing but cowboys and sheep here...nevermind hey you know the three biggest lies a cowboy tells? nathaniel lynch said: >it is an opinion to say that i like Mozart. right. >it is fact to say that mozart was a great musician, perhaps >one of the greatest. wrong. In my humble only of course. For one thing, what constitutes great? And what constutites musician? Well, musician is easy... one who makes music. But what is music? chad: >I have friends at UCLA and UCI that haven't heard a whisper >of Tool playing in the area. If you know the names of any >possible places that they've played in the LA area, please tell >me. hmmm... well one of my friends lives in l.a. and was telling me about the *numerous* tool concerts there. she could have been referring to the past, or she could have been exagerrating. i'll grill her (heh) next e-mail i get from her. Unfortunately, she had some surgery and stuff and isn't feeling too well. It just doesn't pay to know me, huh? :) Justin said: >It was really strange cause the song was almost like I had >heard it before Come to think of it, I've had this feeling too (without knowing it). Two possibilities (that immediately spring to mind): 1. Tool has taken cheesy horror music and refined it to a higher level. 2. It comes from somewhere deep inside where music is "made". Aaron said: >No Tool fan really believes that the band isn't better, >*objectively* better, than, say, the Osmonds. Boy, two blanket statements in a row! (one edited out for your convenience). I haven't heard enough of the Osmonds to say if tool is *objectively* better. What makes music objectively better than other music? Is it how complicated it is? If so, why do people like punk more than prog? Is it how "efficient" the music is? >We understand very little about the way music works on the >emotions We? You mean humans? Have you had any music theory classes? My guitar teacher has told me many things about how music affects humans and he certainly seemed to know a lot more that he wasn't telling me. How much is very little? >If music were entirely subjective, what would be the point of >discussing it? If music were entirely *ob*jective, what would be the point of discussing it? All it would be is, "Beethoven fits in slot one. end of discussion. The Beatles fit in slot 254." Why does subjectivity make discussion of something boring? Sarah said: >Late december is the word. Late december is *two* words. :) i need to sleep. Mike said: >the composers and performers usually need a lot >of rigorous training to produce quality work okay, here I'm showing my ignorance, but why do they need rigorous training? they may need rig. train to get ready for a certain piece. But I see that piece as more of a "test". Someone imposes an objective test which this training is specifically for. fuck it. I can't explain myself right now. sorry this doesn't make much sense. todd ------------------------------ Topic No. 24 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:36:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Goyette To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Daydreams & Cygnus Message-ID: I'm new to the list and I don't know the "Remo story" yet, can someone enlighten me? thanks steve On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Remo Williams wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:30:42 -0400 > From: Remo Williams > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Daydreams & Cygnus > > I feel I should respond. I feel it's necessary for my continued presence > to contain the sort of awe reserved for psychotics and vicious dogs. > > You are not the true Rollins. The true Rollins will contact me when he gets > into town, and we'll see if he's still interested in fighting a fan that > might actually hospitalize him. I doubt it; he and I have grown up in the > past two years. > > Anyway, I don't hit very many people anymore. No one seems worth it. > Especially AOL users. > > Besides that... real men drink Stoli. > > -Remo > > ******************************************* * Steve Goyette * * University of Missouri * * Campus Computing Special Projects Group * * Phone: 314-882-7600 * * Fax: 314-884-6700 * * Email: ccsteve@showme.missouri.edu * ******************************************* ------------------------------ Topic No. 25 Date: 16 Aug 1995 09:55:30 U From: "Khan, Farzana" To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Newcomer Message-ID: I hope I am doing this right, sometimes you read stuff over and over again and you still mess up like a dumb-ass: Hello everybody! I just signed on to the list and have been having a great time of it. I am from Houston (that's in Texas for those of you ignorami! :->) and a lot of people around here love Tool. Can't say I know too many of them (I am one of those people that can count their friends on one hand and still have room leftover. Boo-hoo, I is so pa-thet-ic!), but I notice them every time I go to another concert and happen to be talking about them or my boyfriend is wearing his shirt and people will come up to him and say "Cool! You like Tool!". I first heard Tool back in college (around 92, I think) and the only time I have seen them is at one of the Lollapalooza's they had here in Houston around that time. Houston USED to have this awesome radio station that played all the heavy metal/alternative music (why is it that everytime someone does something that is actually good, be it tv/radio/whatnot, that it soon comes to a deep dark death?-Cool alliteration, huh?). That is where I first heard Tool, and of course it was Sober. I try to inspire everyone I meet to listen to them and I always start with Prison Sex. It has got to be my all time favorite. The last time Tool came around here (May-time 94) I did not get to go and have regretted it ever since. Hey Top Cat, I love the Simpsons, but your Pantera attitude has got to change! Don't make me kick your ass, I will if I have to!!! :-) I would love for anyone to drop me a line anytime! Thanks Kabir for this cool new world you have introduced me to! See Ya!! -------The Baroness of FarzanaKhan-------- e-mail: khan_farzana@semail.jsc.nasa.gov ------------------------------ End of TOOL-LIST Digest 402 ***************************