Return-Path: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:40:06 -0400 Errors-To: gregt@Visix.COM Reply-To: tool-list@Visix.COM Originator: tool-list@visix.com Sender: tool-list@Visix.COM Precedence: bulk From: tool-list@Visix.COM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: TOOL-LIST digest 403 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tool discussion TOOL-LIST Digest 403 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Survey Results!!! by "Pete Meincke" 2) Re: First time/they just don by Justin D Wright <71664.2707@compuserve.com> 3) Re: radio play by jjbl 4) Air Play by Justin D Wright <71664.2707@compuserve.com> 5) Re: i beg to differ... by Justin D Wright <71664.2707@compuserve.com> 6) Re: Newcomer by "Pete Meincke" 7) re: radio play by g_marca@qualcomm.com (Marc Acosta) 8) random administrivia by Greg Thompson 9) Survey Results!!! (2nd Try) by "Pete Meincke" 10) Duplicate posting... by "Pete Meincke" 11) Re: where YOU are by Nikodemus1@aol.com 12) Re: where YOU are by "Sarah Groves" 13) Cow Licking It's Own Ass by Michael Hoffman 14) Re: Comments made on the last list. by Michael Shurpik 15) Re: this travesty of justice by Michael Shurpik 16) remo by Michael Shurpik 17) Re: radio play by Michael Shurpik 18) Re: Cow Licking It's Own Ass by kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your friend Kabir) 19) Re: radio play by "Sarah Groves" 20) Re: radio play by "Pete Meincke" 21) Re: this travesty of justice by "Todd R. Ensz" 22) Re: radio play by Greg Thompson 23) Reply re: Re: i beg to differ... by Jennerlee 24) Re: Cow Licking It's Own Ass by Scott M Casey 25) Re: Reply re: Re: i beg to differ... by Michael Shurpik 26) Survey Results: Part 2 by "Pete Meincke" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic No. 1 Date: 16 Aug 1995 11:00:23 U From: "Pete Meincke" To: "tool-list" Subject: Survey Results!!! Message-ID: <9508161457.AA06929@unet.net.com> Subject: Time: 9:50 AM OFFICE MEMO Survey Results!!! Date: 8/16/95 I've finally finished most of it. In the interest of keeping these posts a reasonable length, I will post the results for a question or two as time allows today and tomorrow. To start with, here's the results to question 1, 2 and 3 (age, location, and gender). Let me know if there are any problems with this post... Enjoy! Total Responses = 63 1. AGE - This one surprised me a little. I thought the average age would be a little lower. It was good to see there's other "old" people like me! The average age (weighted) of all respondents is 21.9 years. The range is 15 to 42 years with the distribution as follows: Age / # of people 15 / 3 16 / 8 17 / 1 18 / 5 19 / 8 20 / 6 21 / 5 22 / 2 23 / 5 24 / 4 25 / 4 26 / 4 28 / 1 29 / 2 30 / 1 31 / 1 35 / 1 37 / 1 42 / 1 Interesting, no? 2. WHERE ARE YOU? NOTE: Because not all people included cities in their responses, I have only included the state for the U.S. folks and the country for the international folks. United States (41) International (22) ---------------------- -------------------- Arizona (3) Australia (9) California (8) Canada (5) Colorado (1) Greece (1) Florida (3) Netherlands (3) Indiana (1) New Zealand (1) Louisiana (1) Poland (1) Maryland (1) Scotland (1) Massachusetts (4) United Kingdom (1) Michigan (1) Minnesota (2) Montana (1) New Jersey (1) New York (1) North Carolina (1) Pennsylvania (1) Tennessee (1) Texas (3) Utah (1) Virginia (3) Washington (2) Unspecified (1) 3. GENDER - Well, we all knew there were a lot of guys on this list. Turns out there are several females as well. The males did seem a little more creative with the factors involved in the determination of their sex, however. At the risk of offending anyone I have included some of the comments I got to this simple m or f question. The results: Males - 52 Females - 11 Determining Factors: "I have a penis." "I was male last time I took a piss." "mail" "m. definitely m." "100% Heterosexual Male (no I'm not homophobic in case you're wondering, I'm just proud to be hetero. STRAIGHT PRIDE!" "Hang on, I always forget this. Okay, I didn't moan in pleasure when I licked my nipple, so I'm male." The only comment I received from the females on this was: "F, they say" ------------------------------ Topic No. 2 Date: 16 Aug 95 12:03:11 EDT From: Justin D Wright <71664.2707@compuserve.com> To: "\"Sarah Groves\"" Cc: Tool-list Subject: Re: First time/they just don Message-ID: <950816160310_71664.2707_EHJ88-1@CompuServe.COM> Tower? Where do I live? I live in Woodinville, WA and the Tower I'm refering to is in Bellevue, but there is also another in Seattle. I'm going to Pomona College in Claremont, CA in about 6 days, though. But I'll always consider myself a Washingtonian. ------------------------------ Topic No. 3 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 12:10:53 -0400 (EDT) From: jjbl To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: radio play Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 1995 RollinsMan@aol.com wrote: > > ps Rollins and Rage is pretty cool to listen to, but come on, you have to > admit that they're fairly talentless. I think that's kind of going out on a limb. I'm not a big Rollins fan, but I think his entire band is very talented. As far as RATM, Tom Morello's guitar solos are some of the most unique around. Not everyone can mix jazz with thrash. The best example of is style (IMO) is on Darkness, that song on the Crow (dumb movie) soundtrack. ----- You have just been verbally molested by: bozak@bridge.net Was it good for you? ----- ------------------------------ Topic No. 4 Date: 16 Aug 95 12:07:23 EDT From: Justin D Wright <71664.2707@compuserve.com> To: Tassos Nickogiannis Cc: Tool-list Subject: Air Play Message-ID: <950816160723_71664.2707_EHJ88-2@CompuServe.COM> Tool get a little airplay on the radio station where I live (Seattle area). I've heard Sober, Prison Sex, Intolerance, and a couple people said they have heard Hush !! Air play isn't that often, and only two station play them. More frequent a year ago. -Justin Wright ------------------------------ Topic No. 5 Date: 16 Aug 95 12:19:17 EDT From: Justin D Wright <71664.2707@compuserve.com> To: Tool-list Subject: Re: i beg to differ... Message-ID: <950816161916_71664.2707_EHJ88-4@CompuServe.COM> <<"What nutcase told you that all opinions are equal? That's crap! Your opinion as an intelligent, educated person is infinitely more valuable than some schmecklehead's who hasn't given the subject one thought." Dude, I couldn't agree with you more:-) But a good first reaction (i.e. no prior exposure or thought) is sometime the way to go. "Trust your instincts", is another option to long over evaluated drawn out thesises. - J Wright ------------------------------ Topic No. 6 Date: 16 Aug 1995 12:59:38 U From: "Pete Meincke" To: tool-list@Visix.COM Subject: Re: Newcomer Message-ID: <9508161655.AA09241@unet.net.com> Reply to: RE>Newcomer >I hope I am doing this right, sometimes you read stuff over and over again >and you still mess up like a dumb-ass: > >I would love for anyone to drop me a line anytime! > >-------The Baroness of FarzanaKhan-------- > >e-mail: khan_farzana@semail.jsc.nasa.gov Damn all these new people!!! I just finished working on the surveys and they start coming out of the woodwork!!! Oh well. Someone else can count'em. ;) Hmm. Speaking of surveys, I sent the first update on the results at around 11am (EST) and here it is 1pm and no sign of it yet... Seems I'm just now getting messages from 9:30am this morning. Must be a traffic jam on the infobahn. Cest la vie. -Pete ------------------------------ Topic No. 7 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 10:05:32 -0700 From: g_marca@qualcomm.com (Marc Acosta) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: re: radio play Message-ID: >no radio play here in San Diego! well, if you count 3:30 in the >morning once every other week by the only cool dj's in town (Vinnie >and Fitz split the graveyard shift). Sober was played on an LA >station for a while, but that peetered out. now all you hear is >Dokken, Hootie, Collective Soul, and Pearl Sham. I've also heard them on the lunch time double shots, quite a few times, with Tooooooddddd Kelly. But I must agree with you it's not nearly enough. > >Oh well, at least I have a portable cd player I can plug into my >truck's tape deck :) My CD makes its home in my car player, it never leaves. > > Chad -marc g_marca@qualcomm.com -------------------------------------------------------- "Hatred keeps me alive" - tool -------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Topic No. 8 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 13:20:59 -0400 From: Greg Thompson To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: random administrivia Message-ID: <9508161720.AA24536@fairlane.visix.com> couple of random things here... a while ago the listproc server which is running this here glorious tool-list moved from one machine to another. in the move, all of the files available on the server (faq, lyrics, images, etc) got lost. i just went through and restored all of 'em except for the archives of the tool-list traffic. hopefully i'll get around to restoring those soon, too. anyway, in the meantime, here's the current list of files you can get from the server. Archive: tool-list (path: tool-list) -- Files: faq (1 part, 22982 bytes) -- Frequently Asked Questions tool.discography (1 part, 16551 bytes) -- Discography of official releases tool.discography2 (1 part, 4325 bytes) -- ROIO Discography Subarchive: tool-arch (path: tool-list/tool-arch) -- Files: jul-95.arch (1 part, 591160 bytes) -- Re: music scene aug-95.arch (1 part, 498146 bytes) -- Re: The Unofficial Tool-list Ce Subarchive: lyrics (path: tool-list/lyrics) -- Files: undertow (1 part, 14348 bytes) -- Lyrics to _Undertow_ opiate (1 part, 6746 bytes) -- Lyris to _Opiate_ Subarchive: images (path: tool-list/images) -- Files: toolcov.gif (1 part, 6963 bytes) -- Undertow album cover news.jpg (1 part, 82789 bytes) -- from a San Diego paper toolwrench1.jpg (1 part, 58918 bytes) -- Tool wrench from shirt toolopiate1.jpg (1 part, 60437 bytes) -- Triangle w/ Opiate eye from shirt haso1.tool.gif (1 part, 115079 bytes) -- Harald's first cool gif haso2.tool.gif (1 part, 88261 bytes) -- Harald's second cool gif listshrt.jpg (1 part, 6373 bytes) -- Design for tool-list shirt Subarchive: articles (path: tool-list/articles) -- Files: m.h.aug.94 (1 part, 10460 bytes) -- Article from Metal Hammer August 1994 to get any of those files, send a piece of mail to the server (the address is still tool-request@visix.com) with an empty subject header, and the following command in the body of the message: get so, to get the haso1.tool.gif (a particularly cool image), you'd send this command: get tool-list/images haso1.tool.gif eventually (could take a few minutes, could take a few hours), you'll get the file in your mail. all images will be uuencoded when they appear in your mailbox, so you'll have to uudecode them yourselves (unless your mailer will do it for you). so i see that 63 people responded to pete's survey. the average age is under 22? damn, i feel old. so yeah, the list is now up to 276 subscribers. obviously there are a ton of lurkers out there. hell, i'm one of 'em... um, what am i forgetting... whatever. -greg ------------------------------ Topic No. 9 Date: 16 Aug 1995 13:58:23 U From: "Pete Meincke" To: tool-list@Visix.COM Subject: Survey Results!!! (2nd Try) Message-ID: <9508161756.AA10725@unet.net.com> Subject: Time: 9:50 AM OFFICE MEMO Survey Results!!! (2nd Try) Date: 8/16/95 2nd attempt to send this... ------------------------------------------ I've finally finished most of it. In the interest of keeping these posts a reasonable length, I will post the results for a question or two as time allows today and tomorrow. To start with, here's the results to question 1, 2 and 3 (age, location, and gender). Let me know if there are any problems with this post... Enjoy! Total Responses = 63 1. AGE - This one surprised me a little. I thought the average age would be a little lower. It was good to see there's other "old" people like me! The average age (weighted) of all respondents is 21.9 years. The range is 15 to 42 years with the distribution as follows: Age / # of people 15 / 3 16 / 8 17 / 1 18 / 5 19 / 8 20 / 6 21 / 5 22 / 2 23 / 5 24 / 4 25 / 4 26 / 4 28 / 1 29 / 2 30 / 1 31 / 1 35 / 1 37 / 1 42 / 1 Interesting, no? 2. WHERE ARE YOU? NOTE: Because not all people included cities in their responses, I have only included the state for the U.S. folks and the country for the international folks. United States (41) International (22) ---------------------- -------------------- Arizona (3) Australia (9) California (8) Canada (5) Colorado (1) Greece (1) Florida (3) Netherlands (3) Indiana (1) New Zealand (1) Louisiana (1) Poland (1) Maryland (1) Scotland (1) Massachusetts (4) United Kingdom (1) Michigan (1) Minnesota (2) Montana (1) New Jersey (1) New York (1) North Carolina (1) Pennsylvania (1) Tennessee (1) Texas (3) Utah (1) Virginia (3) Washington (2) Unspecified (1) 3. GENDER - Well, we all knew there were a lot of guys on this list. Turns out there are several females as well. The males did seem a little more creative with the factors involved in the determination of their sex, however. At the risk of offending anyone I have included some of the comments I got to this simple m or f question. The results: Males - 52 Females - 11 Determining Factors: "I have a penis." "I was male last time I took a piss." "mail" "m. definitely m." "100% Heterosexual Male (no I'm not homophobic in case you're wondering, I'm just proud to be hetero. STRAIGHT PRIDE!" "Hang on, I always forget this. Okay, I didn't moan in pleasure when I licked my nipple, so I'm male." The only comment I received from the females on this was: "F, they say" ------------------------------ Topic No. 10 Date: 16 Aug 1995 14:08:56 U From: "Pete Meincke" To: tool-list@Visix.COM Subject: Duplicate posting... Message-ID: <9508161804.AA10918@unet.net.com> Subject: Time: 2:13 PM OFFICE MEMO Duplicate posting... Date: 8/16/95 @#$%^&*!!!!! Sorry about posting those survey results twice. I sent them off this morning, but never saw them show up on the list. Another piece of mail that I sent to the list well after the survey showed up no problem a little while ago. I figured the results never made it so I sent it again. Sure enough, five minutes after I sent the 2nd set of results, the first finally shows up in my mailbox. My apologies to everyone! -Pete ------------------------------ Topic No. 11 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 14:36:14 -0400 From: Nikodemus1@aol.com To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: where YOU are Message-ID: <950816143612_76245468@aol.com> i'm from the bay area in northern california. suburbs of san francisco. ------------------------------ Topic No. 12 Date: 16 Aug 1995 11:43:52 -0800 From: "Sarah Groves" To: tool-list@Visix.COM Subject: Re: where YOU are Message-ID: Nivek, I don't want to contradict you, but the word from the Rage list is that the album is due out in early December. The reason for this was a break-up of the band earlier this year. They are back together now and the album is being produced by the guy who did Pearl Jam/Neil Young. Apparently 20+ tracks have already been done. Sarah The sky is purple in my world -------------------------------------- When is rage putting out a new album? rage's album was origional supposed to be out this march, but it got pushed back to july 1st, and now is pushed back to 'first week of august'. its gonna be a lot different than the other cd though... its a two cd set, and its supposed to be 'more varied' as the sam goody guy put it. nivek.ogre@compudata.com ------------------------------ Topic No. 13 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 14:50:09 -0400 From: Michael Hoffman To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Cow Licking It's Own Ass Message-ID: <199508161850.OAA05900@pipe2.nyc.pipeline.com> In case no one on this list ever saw it on the part of the UNDERTOW cd that holds the cd in place if you wiggle it off there is a pictrue of a cow licking it's own ass----Anybody know why?---Most I've never saw it and certainly know why. Being that I'm new to this list I guess I'm just asking. "Throw that Bob Marley wanna' be mother fucker out of here" ------------------------------ Topic No. 14 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 15:33:43 -0400 From: Michael Shurpik To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Comments made on the last list. Message-ID: <199508161933.PAA15083@utrecht.lcs.mit.edu> Mozart wasn't a musician? You sure? I think he played harpsichord with the best of them...most composers are awesome pianists, because it's a great way to compose. I saw bits and pieces of "Amadeus" and he was, like, behind a keyboard quite a lot. ------------------------------ Topic No. 15 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:21:01 -0400 From: Michael Shurpik To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: this travesty of justice Message-ID: <199508162021.QAA15243@utrecht.lcs.mit.edu> Return-Path: Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:40:06 -0400 Errors-To: gregt@Visix.COM Reply-To: tool-list@Visix.COM Originator: tool-list@visix.com Sender: tool-list@Visix.COM Precedence: bulk From: tool-list@Visix.COM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: TOOL-LIST digest 403 X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Tool discussion >>the composers and performers usually need a lot >>of rigorous training to produce quality work >okay, here I'm showing my ignorance, but why do they need rigorous training? alright, I'll de-ignorify you. I've taken a couple of composition classes, and I play trumpet, so I have a sense of what it means to be a composer. Composing isn't something you just pick up...most people think that composers just write "what sounds good to them" and eventually some of them become famous. Nope. You have to start by learning all the rules. The concept that music has rules is very foreign to most people, but it's true. There are right and wrong ways to do things, and the right ways *sound better.* Eventually, you learn and/or discover how to break the rules successfully, but that just means a more complex set of guidelines to follow. Your guidelines are your tools for expressing yourself...and it takes a long time to learn how to use those tools. Music is an art, and like any other art, there are agreed-upon ways of doing it well and doing it poorly. People may disagree on whether or not they like Stravinsky's music, but it's easier to agree that Bach did a good job of standardizing the modern way of doing things and was impeccable at following his own set of guidelines. The same thing with a performer...if they can pick up a piece and play it immediately, or if they have good range or quick fingers, or if they have a wide range of emotional qualities to inject into their performance, those are objective, positive qualities that take much practice to be able to pull off. You can disagree on whether you like how a violinist plays his/her solo, but if he/she has the choice of playing it triumphantly or playing it sweetly, they have more tools at their fingertips than the player that always plays his solos the same way. And the more skilled, more varied performer can choose the way that he/she thinks will please the audience...and they usually win. Even if the audience doesn't like it, they will at least agree that he's good enough to know how he wants to play it. Playing and composing is tough...it takes a lot of practice. Some things are hard to do, and being able to do those things is an objectively good quality. Other things are subjective, but well agreed-upon. Other things aren't agreed-upon at all. The problem with pop music is that nobody really agrees upon anything, and being a good performer doesn't mean that people like you because you also have to *write* good music...and composing is altogether different from performing. Tool, I think, are good musicians, and incredibly creative composers. Mike ------------------------------ Topic No. 16 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:26:49 -0400 From: Michael Shurpik To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: remo Message-ID: <199508162026.QAA15292@utrecht.lcs.mit.edu> Hey, Steve. This email is the best way to understand the whole Remo thing. Just read it and then think about whether you'd want to piss him off in a dark alley somewhere. _________________ From: Remo Williams To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: census?? I can't find anyone else with a pulse around here that likes tool. That just leaves me and the reanimates to carpool to a show. I mean, I live in a fuckin' city with 250,000 people; NOBODY likes tool? I just can't find 'em, but ya know what? I ain't really fuckin' lookin' either. I'm the lunatic on the Turnpike screaming "How could I let THIS bring me back to my knees?" and hey, if that labels me, cool. Tool is porno music. Absolutely. I hear "sweat" and I just *know* Racquel Darrian gets all hot and bothered. Black Crowes suck, and hey, that's just my opinion. But lemme tell ya: Otis Redding does a better "Hard to Handle". But only if you like to feel chills when a man sings. I think when tool wanders back here, I'm gonna make a handful of those custom tees and give 'em away at the show. Hopefully some of you list lurkin' fucks will be around for the freebies. Maybe help me get near the stage so I can toss one at Maynard, with a note to give it to fuckin' Danny cuz we all know he's the best part of the music. Hey, fuck the Reverend; he'd never wear one of my tees anyway, probably wipe off his underarms and insult me. - -Remo ------------------------------ Topic No. 17 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:31:25 -0400 From: Michael Shurpik To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: radio play Message-ID: <199508162031.QAA15317@utrecht.lcs.mit.edu> > I think that's kind of going out on a limb. I'm not a big Rollins fan, > but I think his entire band is very talented. As far as RATM, Tom > Morello's guitar solos are some of the most unique around. Not everyone > can mix jazz with thrash. The best example of is style (IMO) is on > Darkness, that song on the Crow (dumb movie) soundtrack. Yeah, I'll definitely give it to you that Rage has a unique style...and I *do* like it when their songs come on the radio. It's also very cool that they bash, like, whole religious institutions very blatantly. Rollins has good lyrics, too. But I've also been told that Rollins' bassist used to play a *two-string* instrument...and I think you hear that in the music. S'all. Mike ------------------------------ Topic No. 18 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:46:49 -0400 (EDT) From: kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your friend Kabir) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Cow Licking It's Own Ass Message-ID: <199508162046.QAA00795@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> yep it's in the faq i highly suggest you read it you can get it on the www at http://pobox.com/~kabir/tool and i'll post it later here ___kabir akhtar______________________________________________________________ | | Vice President, Kabir Fan Club | brutalize me | Secretary, Intuitons Experimental Theater | i will heal. | | ............ | http://pobox.com/~kabir/ | .....--KMFDM | is: "Lick Me / Click Me" _|______________|____________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Topic No. 19 Date: 16 Aug 1995 14:07:02 -0800 From: "Sarah Groves" To: "rage List" , tool-list@Visix.COM Subject: Re: radio play Message-ID: Speaking of Rage music on the radio. Killing in the name of is the most common song to be heard on the radio around here(SF bay). and the bleeps at the end are always interesting. BUT apparently Live 105 doesn't care anymore because I've heard it twice in the past week with no editing, and Lisa CArr said so eloquently at the end "SO THERE!!" Sarah The sky is purple in my world -------------------------------------- owhen their songs come on the radio. ------------------------------ Topic No. 20 Date: 16 Aug 1995 17:30:15 U From: "Pete Meincke" To: tool-list@Visix.COM Subject: Re: radio play Message-ID: <9508162127.AA15044@unet.net.com> Reply to: RE>>radio play > >Speaking of Rage music on the radio. Killing in the name of is the most common >song to be heard on the radio around here(SF bay). and the bleeps at the end >are always interesting. BUT apparently Live 105 doesn't care anymore because >I've heard it twice in the past week with no editing, and Lisa CArr said so >eloquently at the end "SO THERE!!" > >Sarah >The sky is purple in my world I've heard Killing ITNO on WHFS (alternative), DC101 (album rock) and 98 Rock (r-n-r outta Baltimore) here in the Washington D.C. area, but only for the first month or two did they have the bleeps at the last half of the song. Guess they all found a remix because now that whole last half of the song is cut off and it goes straight to the ending. Just isn't the same. I hate radio. Kills music dead. -Pete ------------------------------ Topic No. 21 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 14:52:05 -8 From: "Todd R. Ensz" To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: this travesty of justice Message-ID: <199508162151.OAA12882@bud.indirect.com> Good posting Mike. The concept of "rules" in music is not only foreign to most people but many modern composers as well. There are many out there (I'm not among them) that compose music with very little training and it works! After so many years of absorbing music in one form or another, the rules become subconscious. The don't know a treble clef from a bass clef but they know what sounds good. That they are, in fact, following the rules would probably drive many of them nuts. In my own band both types exist. I write, but am schooled in music. My lead guitar player writes even better and has no music training at all. Who knows. Todd > alright, I'll de-ignorify you. I've taken a couple of composition classes, > and I play trumpet, so I have a sense of what it means to be a composer. > > Composing isn't something you just pick up...most people think that > composers just write "what sounds good to them" and eventually some of them > become famous. Nope. You have to start by learning all the rules. > The concept that music has rules is very foreign to most people, but it's > true. There are right and wrong ways to do things, and the right ways > *sound better.* > Eventually, you learn and/or discover how to break the rules successfully, > but that just means a more complex set of guidelines to follow. Your guidelines > are your tools for expressing yourself...and it takes a long time to learn > how to use those tools. > Music is an art, and like any other art, there are agreed-upon ways of > doing it well and doing it poorly. People may disagree on whether or not they > like Stravinsky's music, but it's easier to agree that Bach did a good job > of standardizing the modern way of doing things and was impeccable at > following his own set of guidelines. > The same thing with a performer...if they can pick up a piece and play it > immediately, or if they have good range or quick fingers, or if they have a > wide range of emotional qualities to inject into their performance, those > are objective, positive qualities that take much practice to be able to pull > off. You can disagree on whether you like how a violinist plays his/her > solo, but if he/she has the choice of playing it triumphantly or playing it > sweetly, they have more tools at their fingertips than the player that always > plays his solos the same way. And the more skilled, more varied performer > can choose the way that he/she thinks will please the audience...and they > usually win. Even if the audience doesn't like it, they will at least agree > that he's good enough to know how he wants to play it. > Playing and composing is tough...it takes a lot of practice. Some things are > hard to do, and being able to do those things is an objectively good quality. > Other things are subjective, but well agreed-upon. Other things aren't > agreed-upon at all. > The problem with pop music is that nobody really agrees upon anything, > and being a good performer doesn't mean that people like you because you > also have to *write* good music...and composing is altogether different > from performing. > Tool, I think, are good musicians, and incredibly creative composers. > Mike > > ------------------------------ Topic No. 22 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:00:00 -0400 From: Greg Thompson To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: radio play Message-ID: <9508162200.AA24343@fairlane.visix.com> >"pm" == Pete Meincke writes: pm> I hate radio. Kills music dead. you bet. even when they do play a song without editing it, they compress the living shit out of it, so it sounds really flat... oh yeah, and whfs just sucks no matter how you slice it. -greg ------------------------------ Topic No. 23 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:12:58 +1000 From: Jennerlee To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Reply re: Re: i beg to differ... Message-ID: <199508162212.IAA05524@isa.isa.com.au> >>As my senior year English teacher (a phd, and an awesome guy) said: >> >>"What nutcase told you that all opinions are equal? That's crap! Your opinion >>as an intelligent, educated person is infinitely more valuable than some >>schmecklehead's who hasn't given the subject one thought." >> > >Good for your English teacher, and good for you for attending to him. Far >better to have to think about what exactly makes Tool superior to other >bands and defend that opinion, than to harbor it secretly and resort to oh and something about "just a matter of taste" .. well excuse me.. i'm resorting??? ok.. 'taste'.. please allow me to clarify.. (IMO), your likes and dislikes in music have to do with your experiences and environment.. (am i doing ok so far, or should i stop so you can correct me?).. (IMO) music has a lot to do with emotions, and emotions are often hard to define, easily changed or unbalanced.. i wouldn't say i like a band because they are musically great.. i don't have a degree in music, and don't count my ability to read music as some credential for judging bands.. bands that i like effect the way i feel... if everyone's experiences are different, surely they are going to react differently to types of music.. hence the 'different tastes' comment.. i'm not saying that theories cannot be expounded about music, but they're personal theories, surely, aren't they? Jen. ------------------------------ Topic No. 24 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:17:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Scott M Casey To: tool-list@Visix.COM Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Cow Licking It's Own Ass Message-ID: I think most everyone here knew about that pic, but does anyone know the story behind the pic. With the size of the cow I always thought that it was pregnant and was getting ready to give birth. Havn't seen any discussion/comments about this so I was just wondering what others had thought. scott On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Michael Hoffman wrote: > In case no one on this list ever saw it on the part of the UNDERTOW cd that > holds the cd in place if you wiggle it off there is a pictrue of a cow > licking it's own ass----Anybody know why?---Most I've never saw it and > certainly know why. Being that I'm new to this list I guess I'm just > asking. > > "Throw that Bob Marley wanna' be mother fucker > out of here" > > ------------------------------ Topic No. 25 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 18:33:33 -0400 From: Michael Shurpik To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Reply re: Re: i beg to differ... Message-ID: <199508162233.SAA17956@utrecht.lcs.mit.edu> > but they're personal theories, surely, aren't they? Yes. A big reason why most of us like tool is because they speak to us emotionally. Other people - people that listen to techno, or whatever - obviously don't look to music for the same emotional reasons we do. And that's why it's so hard to get people to acknowledge this band... because other people are listening to Garth Brooks and are saying "oh, wow, this music speaks to me. It's so deep." Whatever. Fine. Music of today is a lot more about emotions than talent, and there's not necessarily anything wrong with that. Kurt Cobain was no great guitarist, but he sure had something to say that we wanted to hear. Personally, I look for bands that both have something meaningful to say, and have an innovative style of music that conveys what they believe. And people that aren't the greatest musicians can still be good songwriters... Trent Reznor is no trained vocalist, but his style of singing conveys what he feels. Also, I doubt he plays guitar or grums very well, but for some reason, he's become the most talented technowizard out there...and that's impressive, whether or not he's ever taken a guitar lesson. The bands that impress me the most are the ones that do the most with what few skills they have...other bands like Rush do very little with an extraordinary amount of musical ability. I emphasize songwriting over musical proficiency. Mike ------------------------------ Topic No. 26 Date: 16 Aug 1995 18:28:03 U From: "Pete Meincke" To: "tool-list" Subject: Survey Results: Part 2 Message-ID: <9508162238.AA16921@unet.net.com> Survey Results: Part 2 Hola! Here's the second installment for the tool survey. In the interest of not posting a monstrously long message, this will only contain one question: 4. What is your occupation? (if student, what school?) The "real world" jobs: - Technician - Senior Programmer Analyst - Technical Support - Macintosh Consultant - Lab Technician - Professional Writer - Gov't/Contractor Liaison for Defense Contractor - Audio Engineer - TechTracS Administrator - Set Lighting Technician (Film Electrician) - Process Technician for Biotech Company - Software Analyst - Musician / Radio DJ / Clerk for State Office - Park Employee at John Pennekamp Coral Reef State Park - Layout Maker for a Newspaper - Computer Resource Specialist - Documentary Maker - President/CEO of a Physical Therapy Company - Programmer (3 people) - Quality Assurance Manager at a Custom Software Consulting Firm - Technical Writer - Internet Consultant to Governor's Office - "Work at a computer place (sometimes)" - "Looking for work" For those 35 of you still in Never-Never Land, (i.e. students) ;) the following schools were given: -Massachusetts Institute of Technology -Queens University, Kingstown, Ontario, Canada - Western Michigan University - Cal Poly San Luis Obospo - University of Technology - Sydney (Australia) - South Plainfield High School - Concord Academy - Conestoga High School - University of Athens (Greece) - Concordia College - Moorhead - Napier University (Edinburgh, Scotland) - University of Pennsylvania - University of Tennessee - Space Institute - University of Arizona - Old Dominion University - Sul Ross State University - University of South Australia - Levels Campus (2 people) - Saint Paul's School (High School) - Cornell University - Moravian College - Syracuse University - University Of Washington (2 people) - Purdue University - George Mason University - University of Waterloo - Niceville High School - Griffith University at Brisbane - McNeil High School - Falmouth High School - University of Guelph - Regis High School I apologize if I misspelled anything. I tried to take them verbatim from the surveys, but I was kinda tired... :) Tune in tomorrow for more results! -Pete ------------------------------ End of TOOL-LIST Digest 403 ***************************