TOOL-LIST Digest 409 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) What a joke by RollinsMan@aol.com 2) Re: What a joke by Michael Shurpik 3) Re: Word on the New Album by matts@mpx.com.au (Matt Steadman) 4) Re: What a joke by kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your friend Kabir) 5) Re: Survey Results: Part 2 by troll@interlog.com (Christopher S. Andrade) 6) Sorry... by troll@interlog.com (Christopher S. Andrade) 7) Re: trade by Matt Toomey 8) Re: Survey Results: Part 2 by "Christopher J. Roschek" 9) Reply re: What a joke by Jennerlee 10) nine by Toolophile@aol.com 11) Re: TOOL-LIST digest 408 by 9405653m@lux.levels.unisa.edu.au (9405653m) 12) Re: pantera by Michael Stroup 13) Re: Feeling music by Michael Stroup 14) Re: Reply re: What a joke by Gestalt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic No. 1 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 02:44:54 -0400 From: RollinsMan@aol.com To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: What a joke Message-ID: <950820024452_78798831@mail02.mail.aol.com> Okay, after reading Pete's post about "Non-TOOL" bands, I have a question to ask everyone. NIN? I saw Trent on the cover of three different magazines lately. I can't believe that you can call that industrial music. I want to know how many of you "tool-list"er's are actually "big NIN fans". If you want to know what true industrial is, then listen to "Throbbing Gristle" or "Einstuerzende Nuebaten". Those are two REAL industrial bands. Hell, I've even heard about KMFDM playing a show with nothing but Vacuum cleaners. I don't want to make anyone upset, but this is tearing my intestines out. Even "Disgustipated" has more of an indi feel than, "Closer", "March of the Pigs", "Heresy (further Remix)", "Wish", "Happiness in Slavery", "Head like a. . . ", "Down in it", etc. I have listened to every one of NIN's album's hoping to find some sort of indi meaning, but it isn't there. I admire Trent's production abilities and I even like some of his songs, but it's not true ind. I think what pushed me into this hole of insanity was the fact that I have seen a large number of people on the street wearing NIN attire and they talk about industrial being so dark that no one could understand it, but when I start talking about Einstuerzende, these very same people look at me as if I was talking about pop music. They have no concept of industrial music. I have seen too many NIN fans who have been entirely too inhibited in there musical views. I have given Trent a try, but they won't even let me play "Halber Mensch" for them. I'm not saying that anyone on this list is that way, but why would you call it industrial. I need an answer. One of my friends told me, "It's not industrial, but the way Trent plays it, it is." I'm afraid my friend couldn't give me a straight answer as to what industrial music actually was. Within the past month, I have had discussions with 14 NIN fans, and only 3 of them would listen to "Tabula Rasa" with me. None of them liked the E.N. that I played for them. Is there anyone, who can relate to my problem. Pseudo-cambodia has got to go. I know that I am acting rather trivial about this, but it's been held back way too long. Don't be enraged by my B & M session, I just wanted to vent a little frustration and I thought that I could do this among friends. How many of you are tired of yuppies running out and buying up all of the NIN, Greenday, and Nirvana paraphenilia that they can get their hands on. These were all good bands at one point, until they were played out. Sorry, this wasn't a TOOL related posting, but I need a census of opinions. Any mail, in response to this, can go directly to me. I am the Pepsi Generation! Hear me roar! CMcG Kill the weak-minded! Power to the clueless! ------------------------------ Topic No. 2 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 03:24:29 -0400 From: Michael Shurpik To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: What a joke Message-ID: <199508200724.DAA01754@utrecht.lcs.mit.edu> > These were all good bands at one point, until they were played out. I agree, and I'm not going to say any more, since I could rant about today's music scene to no end. So, instead, NIN: > but why would you call it industrial. What's your definition of industrial? To me, NIN is what industrial should be, and groups like KMFDM and Front 242 just suck. I realize that KMFDM and Front 242 are industrial, and NIN isn't, but if you're going to use a cool word like "industrial," you might as well give it to a band (person) that has talent. Given my interest in NIN, I decided to borrow some industrial and give it a try. I thought it was musically hollow. Every song seemed to have only one or two "layers," if you will...few things of interest were going on. My friend, who is now very into industrial, even admitted how bland these bands were. But KMFDM is king in this field, from what I understand. I consider NIN industrial because trent uses lots and lots of digital equipment to create music that sounds like a machine wrote it. KMFDM's music sounds like it's coming out of a drum machine. I'm welcome to plenty more discusion on this subject...I gave industrial quite a bit of thought last summer, but I really don't know a lot about it. Mike ps I was listening to NIN today, in fact...don't write him off. Tracks 6,7,10,11,12,13,14...most of the second half of downward spiral is very creative and he gets his message across mostly without screaming his lungs out like on broken. If he continues this, he may be able to put out his next album without running out of anger. Even closer is an excellent song, minus the cheezy play-THIS-on-the-radio-heh-heh chorus ("i want to fuck you like a farm animal") later. ------------------------------ Topic No. 3 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 95 22:37 EST From: matts@mpx.com.au (Matt Steadman) To: tool-list@visix.com Cc: kabir@sas.upenn.edu Subject: Re: Word on the New Album Message-ID: Hello. >official word is ... this is a fact, so deal ... > >they're half done ... "Maybe next spring." > >sigh. Woo-hoo! At least they're *getting there*. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather wait an extra 6 months for another album the quality of, say, Undertow, than have a mediocre album out now. That, of course, if Tool are capable of Mediocrity! :) Hey, for the benefit of us international Toolers, when exactly is "next spring"? Oh, by the way, I'm going away for a week, so I won't be reading/posting. :( See ya's all! Have a cool week! ------- Professor Nutbutter -------- "Hey kids, ya like that rock & roll?" -- msteadmn@landsend.apana.org.au -- -------- matts@mpx.com.au ---------- ------------------------------ Topic No. 4 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 10:45:52 -0400 (EDT) From: kabir@sas.upenn.edu (Your friend Kabir) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: What a joke Message-ID: <199508201445.KAA12591@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> yep you're right i don't listen to nails nearly as often as i used to it just got a bit silly KMFDM and frontlineassembly have been my things recently old KMFDM and FLA rec.music.industrial is easily my favorite newsgroup ... ___kabir akhtar______________________________________________________________ | | Vice President, Kabir Fan Club | brutalize me | Secretary, Intuitons Experimental Theater | i will heal. | | ............ | http://pobox.com/~kabir/ | .....--KMFDM | is: "Lick Me / Click Me" _|______________|____________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Topic No. 5 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 13:37:18 -0400 From: troll@interlog.com (Christopher S. Andrade) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Survey Results: Part 2 Message-ID: <199508201736.NAA09482@gold.interlog.com> 4. What is your occupation? (if student, what school?) >The "real world" jobs: --->Don't mean to be a whiner Pete, but I'm wondering if you received my reply to the survey 'cause i didn't see my occupation on this list...if you didn't, no bother. It's too late now, but I thought I was sure I sent it and to the right E-Mail address. In any case, the occupation was (and still is) Customer service representative for Rogers Cablesystems, and I also volunteer traffic writing at a pair of radio stations in Toronto, Q107/AM 640. Thanks for the survey though... Bro. Troll ------------------------------ Topic No. 6 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 13:38:44 -0400 From: troll@interlog.com (Christopher S. Andrade) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Sorry... Message-ID: <199508201738.NAA09566@gold.interlog.com> Sorry about that folks, that last memo was to go to Pete only. My apologies... ------------------------------ Topic No. 7 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 13:39:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Toomey To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: trade Message-ID: I'm sorry to send this to all of you on the list because there's only one person I'm trying to contact. Last week someone said they had a copies of a couple Tool boots and they wouldn't mind taping them for fellow Tool fans. Could who ever posted this please contact me personally. Thanks, i'd appreciated it. -Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Matthew Ian Toomey ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "Man was born to love- ^ Though often he has sought ^ Like Icarus, to fly too high. ^ And far too lonely than he ought ^ To kiss the sun of east and west ^ And hold the world at his behest- ^ To hold the terrible power ^ To whom only gods are blessed- ^ But me, I am just a MAN." ^ ^ -M. Patton ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Topic No. 8 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 17:17:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Christopher J. Roschek" To: tool-list@visix.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Survey Results: Part 2 Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Pete Meincke wrote: > > 4. What is your occupation? (if student, what school?) > > - Western Michigan University > Who goes to WMU? I'm from Kalamazoo and went there from '88 to '92. Just curious... Chris ------------------------------ Topic No. 9 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 08:30:02 +1000 From: Jennerlee To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Reply re: What a joke Message-ID: <199508202230.IAA09829@isa.isa.com.au> >Okay, after reading Pete's post about "Non-TOOL" bands, I have a question to >ask everyone. NIN? I saw Trent on the cover of three different magazines >lately. I can't believe that you can call that industrial music. I want to ok, catergorising music can be kinda difficult these days.. when people ask me what type of music i listen to, i generally say something along the lines of 'lots of different stuff', and if pressed, i'll play some TOOL for them and they instantly go "oh, heavy metal".. so, call me touchy, but that irratates me.. anything that they don't understand they lump into the convenient heavy metal slot and dismiss it... so! music gurus, how do you describe TOOL to non-TOOL-types so they don't mentally assume you also listen to Poison? Jenny. ------------------------------ Topic No. 10 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 20:15:19 -0400 From: Toolophile@aol.com To: tool-list@porsche.visix.com Subject: nine Message-ID: <950820201430_79165951@mail06.mail.aol.com> I have nine Tool digests to catch up on. Not a good idea to go away for a week and not really check your mail. hey, Let me start off with my radio story. I live in a really deserted fucking place of Colorado. The other day, I drove up to Colorado Springs. I had to take the truck with a tape player instead of my car with a cd player because my car doesn't have air conditioning (thanks mom) and we sure would hate to have to put my gramma through hot weather in colorado (i was taking her to the airport). Anyway, I heard Tool 4 TIMES on the radio station. I wasn't even in the car that much. I was flipping between three stations and on one was Intolerance then later Sober was on another and Prison Sex was on the first again. Even later still the d.j. was playing Bottom in the background as he was talking to a "winner". Too weird, considering I hardly ever hear Tool on the radio. bozak said: >The best example of is style (IMO) is on Darkness, that song >on the Crow (dumb movie) soundtrack. Oh, I doubly disagree. First off, the movie is truly excellent, in the proper setting, although nothing compared to the comic and i think it's major shitty that they are making a sequel. Actually, I guess I triply disagree. I can't stand the song Darkness. Never enjoyed it. As far as style, check out People of the Sun. It's on a bunch of rage bootlegs and hopefully will be on the new album. Mike said earlier: >>the composers and performers usually need a lot >>of rigorous training to produce quality work and I replied: >okay, here I'm showing my ignorance, but why do they need rigorous training? I forgot to say one thing though. What I was getting at was that these people may need rigourous training to make quality music in a certain genre, but many could probably make quality music (non-genre specific) without rigorous training. >The concept that music has rules is very foreign to most >people, but it's true. There are right and wrong ways to do >things, and the right ways *sound better.* Okay, I really disagree. Again, specific genres have rules (blues for example you typically follow a three chord pattern and only do three chord turnarounds, I think), but music as a whole does *not* have rules. Now a lot of you may disagree with me. This is partially because of what I consider to be music. When I go and sit next to the creek by my house, the water rushing over the stones is music to me. So, yeah, the righy way of making jazz will sound better than the wrong way, but only in the jazz genre. the wrong way may sound just fine when viewed in the larger category of general music. Does that make sense to anyone? >Some things are hard to do, and being able to do those things >is an objectively good quality. The discussion was never whether someone can play their guitar well (for example), it was whether music as a whole is subjective or objective. I think David Gilmour is a damn good guitarist, but I think the three Pink Floyd albums he s on without Roger Waters aren't as good as the others. >Tool, I think, are good musicians, and incredibly creative composers. Yes, but neither of those necessarily makes the music that tool creates good. Ever hear of a "fuck-you" record? Sometimes established artists (good musicians) come up with incredibly creative compositions that sound horribly shitty to most of their fan base. Mike said: >But I've also been told that Rollins' bassist used to play a >*two-string* instrument...and I think you hear that in the >music. For all intents, this is the entire message I got, so I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding. Andrew Weiss was fired from Rollins Band because Hank thought he was being fucking stupid. Anyway, he did play a two string bass, but Melvin Gibbs, as far as I've seen (in concert), does not. If you're implying that a two string makes music sound dull, I'd disagree. For example the intro to Intolerance. I've seen it transcribed in drop d tuning for a guitar, but couldn't it also be played on a bass? In fact, I always thought it was played on a bass. Anyway, the intro is only played on two strings. Pete said: > - Cornell University Actually, it's Cornell College a far better place to go to college, in my humble opinion, of course. brian gave us an interesting theory: >the reason the new TOOL album is taking so long is that >Maynard and the gang are happy. They can't fake unhappiness, >and they certainly don't want to write a "happy" song Nice try, but I've heard Maynard say that if they run out of things to be pissed off about, they wouldn't be above writing some happier stuff. Case in point, the gaping lotus experience and to an extent Disgustipated. Also, 4 degrees, while not being a happy song isn't a song about being pissed off. >This theory also goes for RAGE, who's about 3 years overdue >for a new album. But don't they have 30+ songs written (of which they are only going to release 20 or something?) >New Ministry album anytime soon? Well, the original release date was scheduled for Christmas 94, then pushed to feb, late feb, march and eventually to "sometime in 95". >Maybe they're doing another LARD album? I wish. I think that project is over especially now that Jeff Ward is dead. > I heard about possibly another PAILHEAD album, but Ian >Mackaye is too caught up in Fugazi to fuck with it I actually heard that Fugazi broke up. This makes absolutely no sense to me since they just released an album. Besides, the guy who told me said his friends told him and he hasn't heard anything else about it (in magazines and what not). Does any one have proof one way or the other? nothingman said: >maybe i should have said the most dangerous yeah, that's not a nice place to be, especially late at night. Fortunately, with all those other filterheads and stuff, you rarely get hassled. >>hey you know the three biggest lies a cowboy tells? > >not sure i know that one, but i have figured out why they have >thier names on their belt buckles....it is so they will know >there names when they pull their heads out of their asses that's good. :) 1. I won this belt buckle 2. The truck is paid for. 3. No, really, I was just helping the sheep over that fence. Nivek: to get on the hole mailing list, e-mail susanmay@netaxs.com She does it all by hand, so be nice to her, kay? Michael was talking about the song on the Crow by Pantera. I don't have the disc with me, but isn't that a cover song? Didn't someone else write it? Can't remember. Mike went on to say: >Metallica is great. They invented and/or perfected metal in >the early eighties and taught us to like it in the early >nineties. Groups like Tool and fans like us owe a lot to them. Think so? I suppose, but I'd say we owe more to bands like Black Sabbath and even Zeppelin (No Quarter cover, for example). Or maybe even the Swans Pete said: >Anyway, get a load of all the various bands we enjoy listening to: Man just think if we were allowed to vote for more than three bands! kabir said: >they're half done ... "Maybe next spring." Wow, I thought they hadn't even started recording yet. but I guess I heard that a month ago maybe. bye todd ------------------------------ Topic No. 11 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 10:36:01 +0930 (GMT+0930) From: 9405653m@lux.levels.unisa.edu.au (9405653m) To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: TOOL-LIST digest 408 Message-ID: <9508210106.AA28413@lux.levels.unisa.edu.au> > Anyway, for all you who are bitchin about non-Tool related topics: > LIKEN MINE AUSHLOGEN!! > > Chad > > > ------------------------------ > Hmmmmm Tasty. Anyways, Fellow Tools: It appears that my pal Kabir has contact with someone from TooL, if so could he please please please please, on behalf of the 9 of us in Australia, ask them if they are touring here next album! Tar! (esp. ask them not to miss Adelaide like most good bands seem to do) Although it may not appear so, there are a fuck of alot of fans down here, shops sell out of TooL shirts on a weekly basis. Hankyou (I have a cold). The Frizzle Fry -Paul "Get a very big dog" -Me ------------------------------ Topic No. 12 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 95 17:39 PDT From: Michael Stroup To: tool-list@Visix.COM, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: pantera Message-ID: >And Dimebag is one helluva guitarist. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't really >heard them. > >Try actually playing "Cemetary Gates" and you'll see. > I can play cemetary gates, AND cowboys from hell, AND 5 min alone. I still have a very negative view of them. They are the culmination of everything I hate about popular hard music. Just have the amps turned way up with the bass player mixed so far down you can't hear what he's playing. Throw in some really HEAVY lyrics (that means all the big words they can remember from high-school) screamed with anger that sound's anything but original. The bottom line is they don't play with feeling (In my opinion) that could be compared to Adam Jones, David Gilmour, SRV, or Fripp. Don't get pissed, I'm only spouting my OPINION. Joe ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Stroup "Your dream of power is a sacrifice Vancouver, WA Do you really want to pay that price 10cc WWW Homepage Just think about it and you'll change the pace http://www.pacifier.com/~mikes Look in the mirror and tell me who do you face /10cc/10cc.html ...who is that?" Eric Stewart/10cc/Mirror,Mirror ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Topic No. 13 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 95 17:56 PDT From: Michael Stroup To: tool-list@Visix.COM, Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Feeling music Message-ID: At 02:51 PM 8/17/95 -0400, Nicholas Linnear wrote: >>I'm gonna forward this to everyone I know! My first experience with tool >>was very amazing. I was sitting in my room and my roomate was playing >>his music. Suddenly this song came on that gave me the chills, it was >>sober. The song really pissed me off and I liked it, it brought emotions >>out that I never new existed. The point being, that this is the only >>music that I can feel. Most people can listen to music and say "this >>really SOUNDS great", but can many people say "this music FEELS great", >>this is what tool does for me. Song after song they all can be felt, not >>just heard. I have never experienced a more powerful band! Let me know >>if this does the same to some of you as well. >> >>steve Yes, ever since I heard my first Tool song (Sweat) I was entranced, feeling it so deeply I started playing heavier music (Up until then it was mostly softer stuff like Floyd.) Now I love Alice In Chains, RATM, FNM, and Jane's Addiction. I also started liking a lot of Progressive music like King Crimson, Rush, and before Tool entered my life Primus(I just like them a lot more now) That really sais something to me when a single song heard ONE TIME can change someones whole outlook on music. That is real power (No matter what any Macintosh comercial tells me!) Joe ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Stroup "Your dream of power is a sacrifice Vancouver, WA Do you really want to pay that price 10cc WWW Homepage Just think about it and you'll change the pace http://www.pacifier.com/~mikes Look in the mirror and tell me who do you face /10cc/10cc.html ...who is that?" Eric Stewart/10cc/Mirror,Mirror ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Topic No. 14 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 20:43:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Gestalt To: tool-list@visix.com Subject: Re: Reply re: What a joke Message-ID: > and they instantly go "oh, heavy metal".. so, call me touchy, but that > irratates me.. anything that they don't understand they lump into the > convenient heavy metal slot and dismiss it... so! music gurus, how do you > describe TOOL to non-TOOL-types so they don't mentally assume you also > listen to Poison? I don't see what it matters. Personally, I don't give a fuck what others think of my music or me, or what anything concerning myself means *to them, UNLESS I respect them and their thoughts & feelings, etc. So, speaking as if I were you... what does it matter to you that they lump your tunes in fashion X or Y? Who cares.. if they are so lame, then they they prolly don't have your respect anyhow. And if you don't respect them what does their opinions (relating to you) matter to you? Shrug... if they have an open-mind, they'll use it. If not, who cares what they think. Later.  /-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\ ______ _____ \ , \ __ \ , \ __\\/\_/\ ___ |\ /| | / , \| _/ __\ |/ , \| \| | | |\ \ __/\| / \ __/| | | /\ __/\| |\ | | / \| |/ |/|/|/ |/ \ | |/ cadams@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca \|  ------------------------------ End of TOOL-LIST Digest 409 ***************************