Monday, November 6, 2000 - 12:55 AM Pacific Time
First of all,
apologies to everyone out of the USA.
Obviously, there's a lot of you, and if I had the time,
I would have found some way to auto-skip you all past this.
One important point I have to make is about Nader / 3rd parties. I wrote this to one person:
as far as nader
and 3rd-parties being important to the process, that
is a sentiment i fully agree with. i supported perot for a while in
92 because of it.
of course the
green party should get 5% of the vote. but you see the trouble
with getting that vote at the expense of 2000 - 2004 ?
and i both know 3rd party victory is not going to happen this time.
and for that reason, no matter how much it sucks, you really have to
pick the 'least worse candidate'. because if you don't, we really
are going to wind up with Bush in office.
(i happen to
think gore is a really GOOD candidate, but you see my point?)
The election message has been posted for under 7 hours now, and already email is flooding in.
Some is love-mail, some is hate-mail. I posted some of each, some along with what I wrote back (in grey). Read them, these people almost all make good points.
And remember, I'm certainly capable of being wrong -- that's why I'M not running for President.
I have already reworded some things
on the front page to make them more clear. Here we go....
considered, and taken down. fair is fair.
i hate to say it Kabir, but i'm in strong disagreement with you here. a vote for Ralph Nader is a vote for Ralph Nader. i refuse to participate in this whole "voting for the lesser of two evils" bullshit any longer because when you vote for the lesser of two evils, you still get evil. (fwiw, my permanent residence is in PA and i already sent in my absentee vote for Nader)
i'm sure i could run my mouth about Nader (and you about Gore) until the cows come home and it probably wouldn't convince you to change your mind, so i'm not. that said, i do think it's very cool that you're putting up a "get off your lazy ass and vote" message on tdn because, frankly, the amount of young ppl that don't vote is scary.
[i did post the above statement clarifying my support for 3rd parties, cuz i do support them. just not this year.]
I logged onto toolshed as I do at least every other day to see if there's any new news, and was surprised to see a page dedicated to trying to get people to get off their asses and vote. Needless to say, I'm impressed. I'm sure some people are going to be thinking, "what the fuck, I wanted to tell people that third eye is about molesting little kids and there's some bullshit about some Gore and Bush guys who I've never even heard of. Kabir's such an asshole." Well, I think it's great that you did that. Maybe it'll cause at least a couple of people to wake up and vote. While I don't agree with your political views, that's not really the issue (Sorry, Ralph's the man, and while he doesn't stand a chance in hell of winning, if you don't vote for the person you believe represents you best, the whole concept of voting is perverted.)
I saw the message you put up on the site there. Glad you did it too. Basically, thanks for putting it up so more people could see it. I may not love Gore, but he's certainly the lesser of the two evils (and you can bet I'll be driving home, 40 miles away, just to vote).
Again, thanks for putting that up there.
>"October 26, 1995, Washington, DC -- With a warning that trashy daytime
>talk-shows on television are debasing our culture and harming America's
>children, William J. Bennett and Senator Joe Lieberman today launched a
>campaign to rid the airwaves of sordid programs."
> Thank god our new vice president will protect us from the terrifying
well, that was five years ago. i see more trashy daytime talkshows than i did then. so much for that. besides, where would i be without springer on my days off? ;)
>rethink your thinkings, i beg of you, you clearly have
>lovely aboundings of potential... spreading the idea
>that people should not vote their conscience, is
well look. anyone who has already made up
their mind won't be affected by me.
anyone who changes their mind here because this made them think, i respect.
but anyone who has no beliefs, however, who will flip their switch just because it's cloudy or sunny today ... honestly, i'd rather they learned to THINK FOR THEMSELVES than just listen to some guy with a tool website.
hopefully, they will.
Thank you Kabir, that may be the single most intelligent statement I've
seen on the web. I am very glad to see someone with influence, such as
yourself, (re..over 1.1 million page views) trying to help keep that awful
fucking George Bush out of the White House. We would definitely have
serious problems if he were to get elected. You have my complete
admiration and respect.
dude. fucking *WOW*. i'm very impressed with what you said there, and i think you are going to reach a LOT of people by doing that. kudos to you.
[read this one, Nader fans]
I'm right where the election is gonna come down
to (in the midwest). The swing states are
right here, and it's the people I know that are going to make the difference.
To expand on my editorializing, maybe you could throw up a section about if
you want to vote for Nader, and you know your vote is going to be wasted because
the state is going to Bush, vote Gore and have a friend vote Nader in a swing-state.
I think that the shut down of your page to the PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS
DISGRACEFUL. The united states of america is not the only country in
the world if you haven't realised that there are over 250 other nations
in this world. No offence but try and think of others who are in this
world and who don't want politics to control their lives.
FROM ONE CONCERNED AUSSIE
I'd just like to say outright that I'm not American, but international politics are something that interest me greatly, and I would just like to say the following...
You sir, are a fucking legend. I salute you. You're anti-Bush 'protest' is something I support wholeheartedly, and although Nader is obviously the best candidate, if I were an American citizen I would gladly forsake my principalsİmomentarily (or even for longer) to stop Bush from winning.
Ah, the American political system is such bullshit. People are all idiots. They're dumb enough to give Bush a chance, and that's D-U-M-B. It's a sad world we live in, but I'm glad that conscientious people such as yourself are politically aware enough to make a statement.
>>you have a valid point, but I still disagree, and besides that, I'd rather have Bush than Gore. Not that I'm going to jump to Bush's defense. In my opinion this is definitly a situation of "the least worse candidate" as you put it. I'd love to see the day when parties don't exist and people can run and be judged based on their own merit and ideals without all the democrats vs repbulicans vs independants bs, but I think I'll see Nader win both now and in four years before I'll live to see that day. A revolution and reconfigeration of our entire politcal system is exactly what I think would be best for this country, but unfortuantly it's a lot more complicated than that and with new ideas, come new methods of greedy people getting what they want at the expense of all of us. Ah well. What do I know anyway.
hey bro, you have an opinion, and that is something
i won't fight you on. that's what matters. thanks for having
ALL HAIL KABIR!!! Your message on the front of Toolshed is great.
Very well written, great
message, I'm behind you 100%. Despite the fact that I was a bit
dissapointed when I saw the lack of Tool news, I really didn't care by the
time I got to the end of the message.
GODDAMIT! FUCK THAT SHIT WHAT IF YOUR NOT OLD ENOUGH TO VOTE? OR WHAT
DONT GIVE A SHIT CUZ BOLT PARTIES ARE FULLA SHIT? KEEP YOUR GODDAMN
POLITICAL VIEWS TO YOURSELF. SHUTTING DOWN THE ONLY COOL TOOL SITE CUZ YOU
WANT PPL TO VOTE IS FUCKIN GAY.
hey, man. sorry to bother you again, but i just wanted to thank you and let you know that what you said (and what you're doing in leaving the site down) is really honorable. i thought you were a cool guy for having an amazing web site dedicated to one of my favorite bands, but now i fully understand how intelligent you are, and i have a great deal of respect for you. you are showing everyone that you understand how important this election is.
i also want to thank you for another reason. i'm a libertarian, and i had planned on voting libertarian, but WHAT YOU SAID MADE ME THINK. a vote for gore is a vote against bush (i have some of the same opinions you do about mr. w), and i would not be throwing my vote away on a candidate who would never, ever win the election (e.g. harry browne). i used to say that i didn't care that i was throwing my vote away, that i wanted to support the libertarian party regardless of the math. what you said made me think, and it made me realize i DO care.
I was reading your site and discussing the election issues with my roommate and this is what he had to say
"I'm not voting for Bush, because I don't want Dopey in the white house
for 4 years."
"Yeah, he looks [acts] like Dopey and he smokes crack."
Much appreciated is the motivational message presented to the patrons of this well constucted and run web site. It is truly a valuable action to vote, to voice one's opinions vicariously through a leader who more or less represents the political ideology of his constituents. Taking the fact in mind that the majority of the readers of your page are young men and women between the ages of 15 and 30, it is even moreİvaluable to stress the importance of voting. This age group, as studies have incontrovertably shown, are the infamous cancer of the American voting system, continually dropping in numbers of both registered voters and those who actually vote. For your inspirational movement displayed on Sunday, November 5, I commend you. My graces end at that point.
[well, at least we got that far. =)
Though I am not a die-hard Bush supporter, nor could I be considered a Gore opposer, I find your editorial quite unnecessary. You are not alone in believing that Bush is a seemingly foreign policy imbecile or that Gore is the personification of an eggplant, but the opinionated expression made in the midst of such a valid motivational note overshadows the voting enthusiasm. It also seems that you thought it astout to underline the negative aspects of the Republican party and its conservative members, making it appear that those right-wing outliers are the complete embodiment of Bush and his would-be cabinet and Supreme Court members. One could similarly and incorrectly point the finger at extremists that are considered to be the liberal embodiment of Gore's Democratic party. How could we forget such idiots as Richard Gephardt, Teddy Kennedy, or even a Gore-backed Clinton appointee Joceyln Elders, the former Surgeon General who thought it a good idea to teach kindergartenders how to masturbate and to give them condoms?
For those who had yet to make up their minds but are not as self-regulated as I am, I can only hope they are not so easily influenced by media and celebrity endorsements that include your web page's. I have been a frequent visitor of this site because I am a die-hard Tool fan and I appreciate those like yourself who put out information for us to view. The pictures, readings, tabs, and news given on this site are excellent and I will continue to visit here on a daily basis. I just thought it pertinent to tell you that there was no need to negate the valuable message about voting by including your opinionated write-up. You will probably label me as a Naziesque GOP supporter and disregard all of this letter, but you would be wrong to do both as I am just a simple, neutral voter who backs the best candidate for the job.
hey man, not at all. i firmly believe that as long as you have an opinion, i am not going to try to change it -- i commend it, though we disagree. what matters to me is that PEOPLE ARE THINKING. that's all.
[by this time of night, I had to get to bed. i had so far written back to over 100 people and dammit, carpal tunnel had kicked in.]
WOW... I'm really quite
amazed at the stand you're taking...
I'll be voting for Al Gore on Tuesday... It's really quite nice to see
somebody who takes the election as seriously as it should be taken...
Four years... Several supreme court seats... While often eye-pokingly
boring, this election is definately the most important one that's taken
place during my 19 years on this planet... The world's an interesting
place to be right now... I don't want George W. and his Elephant beast
fucking it up for me and the rest of humanity...
forgive me for saying that this is bullshit man
i came here for tool stuff and i get political shit...i am voting tuesday...i'm voting for "the w" or whatever you called him. because apparently you are just an avid gore fan and are therefore ignoring anything that Bush says. if you didn't know already, the president has many many many advisors that help him with foreign policy (even though bush knew more than gore in debate #2) he even has colin powell(sp?) on his side which he will probably appoint to some high ranking position. bush gives tax breaks to EVERY american, gore has "targeted tax breaks" where many many many millions of americans get no tax cut at all. the only reason wealtheir people get more money is that bush's plan is on percentages. EVERYONE still gets a break. cheney meant the military is for fighting wars when they arise, not for being the world's "police force," meddling in business we have no reason for having our noses in. and you're obviously just such a bleeding heart liberal with your statement of "other real scary conservative old men" bush is probably the only one willing to work with both parties for a better america.
admitted - i'm way left wing, man. i make enough $ that i ought to be more republican, but i still think gore's ideas on tax credits for education and against school vouchers resonate.
of course the pres is not in foreign policy on his own. but the W has made some chunky errors on other countries' stances.
did you see the interaction in the debates where Bush answered a question about the serbian elections and how to deal with milosevic?
bush said he would have the russians deal with it, given their 'power' in that region. gore said that wouldn't make any sense, since the russians were out for a different outcome than the us was hoping for. bush says 'well, of course we wouldn't ask them to help if they didn't share our views.'
gore replies - 'they don't.'
and look, as long as you have an opinion one way or another, i'm not going to try to change your mind. all that really matters is that people not sit idly by when this year they actually CAN make a difference...
anyway, i doubt i will post something like this
again anytime soon. we got 2 cd's coming out in the next 5 months...
thanks for not being a jackass =)
>I'm sorry, but this is just plain wrong. Do you think only americans
>visit your page? Why should the rest of the world be forced to think
>about American politics until tuesday!? Forcing that upon the rest of
>the world is just plain wrong.. think about what you're doing to all
>of us until tuesday...
>The least you could do is have a little disclaimer, something along
>the lines of "only click here if you're not american".. like they do
>on all the porn sites, that keeps minors out doesnt it?
i thought about it. site down for another 24 hours. it's been down longer when the machine crashes.
i was going to put up a 'only click here if you're not american thing', but i figured ... well, 14 yr olds are still downloading blowjob.mov, right?
i really don't have a good answer for you. i know that some large percent of toolshed visitors are in the us. and that they represent a very focused demographic of people who can make some kind of difference if they vote.
i also know that if any tool news breaks before tuesday morning, you'll see it here ASAP. sorry for the inconvenience, then.
[perhaps my favorite.]
>how can you believe al gore and his buch of bullshit he calls his platform.
I mean damn, u bring up
>the debates what i saw was the fact that al gore does not konw how to answer questions.
>YOU ARE A DUMB SHIT! and you know what, the fact that you are gonna vote for him means
>nothing cuz gdub will reign triumphant and our country will be led by a great leader
>you deserve to be killed
why? you have another tool fan site that is in constant contact with the band?
damn dude. thanks. i am 19 and finally get to vote and i ain't missing
my chance. and you put up some quick good info. to help people make a
better decision. good lookin out for the community (tool fans). thanks
many thanks for the site as well. later.
And they go on and on.
I got a lot of well-written email from people (agreeing or disagreeing). And really, that's what matters. As long as you have opinions, as long as you are thinking for yourself ...
... and as long as you actually
exercise your voice and vote Tuesday. That's the bottom line.
I wish I had more time to write more. I'm working all day Monday (for MTV - the ultimate irony of this), but I'm sure this page will get updated Monday night.